Review: Winning in Tough Hold 'em Games by Stox/Zobags

[stoxtrader]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm still a micro limit player, but I bought the book because I was sure I would gain some valuable insights. (and I was right)

I have a few general comments and I hope at least a few expert players will give me their thoughts in response.

When I look at "any" advice (especially pre flop) I almost always play more conservatively than suggested. The reason is that virtually every marginal situation in my hands is worth less than it is in the hands of an expert (the author for example). IMHO, if I were to follow the advice given for many marginal situations, my win rate would actually start falling until my entire game had improved to the expert level.

I think this is something that way too few people (even extremely bright ones) seem to give enough consideration.

The profitability of a hand or play is very correlated to the overall skill of the person trying it. A great player can even turn marginally EV- hands profitable and vice versa.

[/ QUOTE ]

yes, a large factor in examing pre-flop play by emperical profitability, as we did, is the POST FLOP SKILL of the player. We did use three different players with different results to try and mitigate this somewhat but you are exactly correct that the worse you play post flop then the worse each hand should perform. Also, the rake is a consideration as well for marginal hands, so overall I think your thought process is sound.

Remember however, there is a mitigating factor at work here as well. If you feel like your abilities are not as strong as they could be and correctly play at lower levels, then the average skill level of your opponent should be lower as well, so your ABSOLUTE skill level is not really the issue here, it is your skill level RELATIVE to your competition.

As an example, you may have a LARGER skill advantage against a 50c/1 player than I have against a 30/60 player....

[fatgirl_lover]

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[stingray2222]

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[MarkD]

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which book is overall better this one or Small stakes holdem

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They are not comparable in any way except that they are both about limit hold'em.

They are about different games with different target audiences and both books hit their mark in their own regards but you can not compare one book to the other - they aren't the same.

Each book is the best in it's class IMO.

[Heisenb3rg]

[ QUOTE ]
which book is overall better this one or Small stakes holdem

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I just finished reading stox's book.. I've read SSH 4 times.
Both are amazing books and are must reads for any limit hold em player, but overall I'd have to go with SSH.

SSH was the bible for any beginning limit player, it was very very well written, easy to read , easy to digest, yet packed some really powerful concepts. Not only was it easy to understand for the beginner, but it used many advanced concepts for maximillay extracting from loose-passives that im sure even some pro's had not thought of.
This book changed the game.

The more technical writing style in stox's book makes it a little harder to read in one sitting. You have to dig a little more for the good information. It is geared towards the advanced players.
I follow all the concepts in the book, but anyone new to poker theory would probabily be totally lost in many parts.
Because its target audience is narrower, and the writing isn't as fluid, I wouldn't rate it as high as SSH.

SSH = 10/10
WITHG = 9.5/10

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