More guns the way to go? Some thoughs.

[theweatherman]

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Surely this would also make it much more difficult to commit violent crimes.


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No, itd just be harder to get away with. Nothing is going to stop the crime from happening

[karlwig]

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Gun control laws that target criminals but don't effect rites of the average citizen are fine with me.

1)Mandatory 5 years added to sentence for having a gun in the commission of a felony
2)Felons not allowed to purchase guns

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What about people who have never commited a crime before? Thing is, you never know. If I lived in the US, I would be allowed to buy a gun. I could still use it to kill 50 people. How do you decide who gets guns and who doesn't, except from that felons can't buy (which sounds obvious to me)?

[Metric]

These arguments have been crushed numerous times in other threads. There are places in the US with very strict gun control -- it is useless.

What I'd like to know is this: What is it about American firearm ownership that Europeans (and others) just can't stand? Do Americans go around preaching about how Germany needs to lower the speed limit on the autobahn? Yes, we're familiar with firearms here. Some areas are extremely safe and others are very dangerous (usually those with heavy gun control). Just like the rest of the world. When death by firearm becomes more statistically worrysome than tripping down the stairs or the like, let me know. Otherwise, no, I'm not going to change my mind about how much better my life would be if I forgot everything I knew about firearms and self-defense.

[NickMPK]

Also, if you make guns illegal, the supply of guns will drop dramatically, regardless of the demand. Who is going to make new guns if their manufacturer and importation is illegal? It's not like the average criminal can create a handgun (or even a bullet) in his basement. Obviously, there will be existing guns floating around for a few decades, but I think most gun control advocates acknowledge that they really forsee a gun-free society 50-years down the road, and not 5-years.

[Borodog]

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Lol at the "if guns are not allowed" argument. The government can't keep hard drugs out of maximum security prisons. It is literally impossible to simply wave some magic legislative wand and POOF! make guns disappear.

Simple economics FTW:

1. Pass gun law to restrict access to guns; legitimate gun supply goes down.
2. Demand for guns among criminals does not change.
3. Price of illicit guns goes up, and hence the profit in supplying them, enticing more suppliers into the illicit gun market.
4. Price increase does not impact the demand for illicit guns amongst criminals, since they are, by definition, willing to simply commit property crimes to cover the increased cost. In fact, the gun is a capital investment for them.

Throw in the fact that the black market is dominated by criminals (by definition), and you have a recipe for increased crime rates completely aside from the incentive to commit crimes that comes with disarming potential victims.

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Where is this huge black market for guns in all of the countries that have gun control?

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Everywhere, in direct proportion to the demand. Have you bothered to look? The vast majority of crimes committed with guns in the US were committed with guns that were not legally obtained, so your insinuation that the black market does not supply guns to criminals is false on its face.

[bluesbassman]

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I would be in favor of EVERYONE banning guns. Trust me. i would rather the gun be in the hands of a cop or FBI agent than a street thug though. Which is more likely to cause you and I harm?

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I can't speak about you, but an FBI agent is WAY more likely to cause me harm than a common street thug. I live in a safe neighborhood in a large apartment building which has some security. The likelihood of me getting victimized by a criminal is negligible.

On the other hand, some of the things I do online, such as gamble, is considered "illegal" by the U.S. Feds. Not to mention the "subversive" opinions I express on this or other forums. I own guns primarily to defend myself against the government (as a last resort), not street thugs.

[karlwig]

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These arguments have been crushed numerous times in other threads. There are places in the US with very strict gun control -- it is useless.

What I'd like to know is this: What is it about American firearm ownership that Europeans (and others) just can't stand? Do Americans go around preaching about how Germany needs to lower the speed limit on the autobahn? Yes, we're familiar with firearms here. Some areas are extremely safe and others are very dangerous (usually those with heavy gun control). Just like the rest of the world. When death by firearm becomes more statistically worrysome than tripping down the stairs or the like, let me know. Otherwise, no, I'm not going to change my mind about how much better my life would be if I forgot everything I knew about firearms and self-defense.

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So people getting killed from firearms is nothing to worry about, as long as it happens less than people tripping down the stairs? Now that's a good argument. I guess we should just let people kill eachother then, since dying in traffic is more common.

[pvn]

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Well, it would still be safer. Yes, a man with a gun would be unstoppable for sivilians, but then nobody would get hurt trying to stop him either.

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Wha??? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

[rubbrband]

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Gun control laws that target criminals but don't effect rites of the average citizen are fine with me.

1)Mandatory 5 years added to sentence for having a gun in the commission of a felony
2)Felons not allowed to purchase guns

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What about people who have never commited a crime before? Thing is, you never know. If I lived in the US, I would be allowed to buy a gun. I could still use it to kill 50 people. How do you decide who gets guns and who doesn't, except from that felons can't buy (which sounds obvious to me)?

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Under current laws VT shooter shouldn't have been able to purchase a gun because he had previously been forcefully admitted into a psychiatric ward. The problem is this is difficult to do a background check on due to privacy laws.

[pvn]

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What about people who have never commited a crime before? Thing is, you never know.

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Please report to prison forthwith. We just don't know; you might be about to committ all sorts of violent acts. We simply can't take the risk.

Thanks!

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If I lived in the US, I would be allowed to buy a gun. I could still use it to kill 50 people. How do you decide who gets guns and who doesn't, except from that felons can't buy (which sounds obvious to me)?

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I don't decide. That's the whole point.

This seems to be a common european mindset - who's going to decide this, who's going to allow that? Bureaucratic domination. Guess what - people can act independently, without the approval of the Bureau of Plumbing, Toilet Flushing Department.