another bad river bet-call

[MacGuyV]

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Against a reasonable to good player i think miles should just CR the flop as too often the turn will get checked through. In addition with so many draws possible there is a reasonable chance you will get called down light here.

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Totally agree

[milesdyson]

T95 double suited flop and you guys think people check the turn a lot? I'd check a lot, but almost everyone puts you on a loose peel and bets almost every time. And then they call down the check raise with AJ. It's sick.

[jstill]

so u do play hands like JT this way then ur saying? ck call the flop to cr most turns?

[MacGuyV]

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T95 double suited flop and you guys think people check the turn a lot? I'd check a lot, but almost everyone puts you on a loose peel and bets almost every time. And then they call down the check raise with AJ. It's sick.

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True, I should think more about "good 2barrelling boards" from villian's pov but I don't cause I'm results-oriented & always guess wrong [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]
I tend to Cbet ~T9xx boards myself...

[marching_on_together]

[ QUOTE ]
T95 double suited flop and you guys think people check the turn a lot? I'd check a lot, but almost everyone puts you on a loose peel and bets almost every time. And then they call down the check raise with AJ. It's sick.

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No i think the average player would bet the turn alot but in this specifc example i would expect a decent 2+2 to check here. Most people in this thread seem to want to check against you with Ax so that makes this a flop raise.

[milesdyson]

They say they want to check because I check raised. No one knew how I played until now. You shouldn't expect a TAG to c/c, c/r made hands too often, and without knowledge that they do this, you should be betting the turn and taking the free showdown.

Plus chezlaw 3-bets drawy boards with overcards and takes free cards. If he never did this I would be more likely to just check raise the flop.

[MacGuyV]

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Plus chezlaw 3-bets drawy boards with overcards

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O'rly, don't think i've c/r/folded vs. him ever but now i have to make sure [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]

[chezlaw]

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They say they want to check because I check raised. No one knew how I played until now. You shouldn't expect a TAG to c/c, c/r made hands too often, and without knowledge that they do this, you should be betting the turn and taking the free showdown.

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I'm suprised people are suggesting I check this turn (makes more sense from your p.o.v as I could have a much less).

but then this whole thread has been suprising and very interesting. At least no-one says we did anything wrong pre flop [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

chez

[milesdyson]

Here's my take.

Preflop: Standard raise. Standard defend.

Flop: Standard cbet on your part. I guess my call is not standard, but I think calling planning to check raise most turns is a better plan on this board. Why? Because I think you'll (correctly) bet the turn with almost your whole range, and I think my line looks weird/bluffy enough to get you to call down with AK.

Turn: I think you have to bet this because of how many straight possibilities there are. I don't think you expect me to have a pair very often, and that's a good expectation. I know this too, so I follow through with the plan I made on the flop. You make the call with your draw. FWIW I am almost positive that 3-betting here is the best play for you to make. My range doesn't have many 5x hands, but it does have a ton of 9x hands, pairs like 66, and some Tx hands. I'm basically folding everything but 5x to a 3-bet here. Please don't ever do this, though, haha.

River: This is where it's weird.

[jstill]

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They say they want to check because I check raised. No one knew how I played until now. You shouldn't expect a TAG to c/c, c/r made hands too often, and without knowledge that they do this, you should be betting the turn and taking the free showdown.



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this was pretty much one of the main points i was trying to drive at more or less (and why I was asking questions about how u play) when I was saying i usually bet the turn vs standard villains. And why i was so curious to hear why u said a turn bet was an issue vs u here. I remember at one point u saying u hadnt taken the ck call ck raise line with TPGK or TPMK in a long time and hardly ever do. It seems like so much of ur range on the turn would be semi-bluffs its not even a bad calldown UI, but really a tag should be check-raising the turn so seldomly here (5x is literally the only legit hand, the boards too drawy not to check-raise the flop altho I guess I should start thinking 2nd level about what boards are good for villains to two barrel A hi with) betting for a freeshowdown seems like a no brainer vs all ur worse drawing hands and loose peels wed rather not give a freecard to IMO.

I wonder if this is a spot where we should be have some balance or mixed strategy to be optimal vs observant opponents we play often? I think it should be weighted towards betting to some degree tho.