another bad river bet-call

[marching_on_together]

Against a reasonable to good player i think miles should just CR the flop as too often the turn will get checked through. In addition with so many draws possible there is a reasonable chance you will get called down light here. While it runs somewhat contrary to that argument i think your best to also CR your draws here on the flop against this opponent. I save my waiting to the turn plays to when I'm against poor players who may bet fold or will at least bet the turn with hands that i have a large equity edge against. i don't think that is the case here.

If i was hero i would only bet this turn with either top pair overpair or a big draw eg QJ (or as hero has the nut flush draw) which i figure to have over ten outs. I would frequently 3 bet both the made hand and the draw esp if the draw has some showdown value which QJ, A$s has here and there is some chance villain can fold.

That being said i'm not keen on miles turn CR if he has any respect for hero's play he should be putting him on a strong hand here.

[jstill]

can i just ask what hands u are owning him with here Miles? 5x seems like about it. 99 TT and sometimes 55 3bet pre and those and T9 or AT KT QT probaby cr the flop the vast majority of the time (do u ever play those this way?). I think a bet here has decent value vs most.

And yeah he probably doesnt get 2 bets in good that often (altho a semibluff with a worse drawing hand definitely happens at times on this turn so thats not true either). But that doesnt mean we shouldnt necessarily bet just becuz the frequency of a (legit) check-raise isnt very high here. I think vs someone like u I probably prefer to check and call any river raising a heart but I think its pretty close.

[MacGuyV]

[ QUOTE ]
Against a reasonable to good player i think miles should just CR the flop as too often the turn will get checked through. In addition with so many draws possible there is a reasonable chance you will get called down light here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Totally agree

[milesdyson]

T95 double suited flop and you guys think people check the turn a lot? I'd check a lot, but almost everyone puts you on a loose peel and bets almost every time. And then they call down the check raise with AJ. It's sick.

[jstill]

so u do play hands like JT this way then ur saying? ck call the flop to cr most turns?

[MacGuyV]

[ QUOTE ]
T95 double suited flop and you guys think people check the turn a lot? I'd check a lot, but almost everyone puts you on a loose peel and bets almost every time. And then they call down the check raise with AJ. It's sick.

[/ QUOTE ]

True, I should think more about "good 2barrelling boards" from villian's pov but I don't cause I'm results-oriented & always guess wrong [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]
I tend to Cbet ~T9xx boards myself...

[marching_on_together]

[ QUOTE ]
T95 double suited flop and you guys think people check the turn a lot? I'd check a lot, but almost everyone puts you on a loose peel and bets almost every time. And then they call down the check raise with AJ. It's sick.

[/ QUOTE ]

No i think the average player would bet the turn alot but in this specifc example i would expect a decent 2+2 to check here. Most people in this thread seem to want to check against you with Ax so that makes this a flop raise.

[milesdyson]

They say they want to check because I check raised. No one knew how I played until now. You shouldn't expect a TAG to c/c, c/r made hands too often, and without knowledge that they do this, you should be betting the turn and taking the free showdown.

Plus chezlaw 3-bets drawy boards with overcards and takes free cards. If he never did this I would be more likely to just check raise the flop.

[MacGuyV]

[ QUOTE ]
Plus chezlaw 3-bets drawy boards with overcards

[/ QUOTE ]

O'rly, don't think i've c/r/folded vs. him ever but now i have to make sure [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]

[chezlaw]

[ QUOTE ]
They say they want to check because I check raised. No one knew how I played until now. You shouldn't expect a TAG to c/c, c/r made hands too often, and without knowledge that they do this, you should be betting the turn and taking the free showdown.

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm suprised people are suggesting I check this turn (makes more sense from your p.o.v as I could have a much less).

but then this whole thread has been suprising and very interesting. At least no-one says we did anything wrong pre flop [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

chez