Shorthanded Stud/8, Only Low Card Completes Bring-In

[Micturition Man]

I just give them credit for any random low hand and play accordingly.

Just reraise with any overpair or maybe 3str/3flush.

I guess from the tone of your post you are considering throwing away overpairs here because the pot is so small?

In my opinion this is mistake, mainly because your opponent is very likely to have a razz hand, and also he can have a small pair or a 3 flush/2low.

[PokrLikeItsProse]

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Just reraise with any overpair or maybe 3str/3flush.

I guess from the tone of your post you are considering throwing away overpairs here because the pot is so small?


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No, my main concern is if/how I should play a 3-straight or 3-flush. Those are hands that I often dump at a full table, probably a bit more than I should. Is a hand like (QT)9 worth playing? That's a hand that I probably never play.

[Andy B]

I don't play QT9 or QJT or KQJ either. Ever.

[Wetdog]

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I don't play QT9 or QJT or KQJ either. Ever.

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Even in a shorthanded game?

[Andy B]

Don't play shorthanded much, but I can't see playing them there, either. I don't know how to play QJT. If I'm in a shorthanded game, there's a reason I'm in there. I'm playing against that guy with hands I know how to play.

[SweetLuckyMe]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't play QT9 or QJT or KQJ either. Ever.

[/ QUOTE ] As a default strategy that's fine. If the bringin completes with *every* low card 3 or 4 handed, you're very likely losing a bit by not considering playing them. The major deciding factor is how well the bringin plays on later streets. Will he peel after bricking 4th? How about 5th? Will he call down with a small 2pr? The more mistakes he makes from 4th on the more we lose by not playing the KQJ and QJT type hands (I could never fault someone for forever folding QJ9).

Consider this, here's how the following hands do heads up vs. a few of the bringin's likely completing hands.

Js Ts Qh .547
Jc 6s 7s .453

Ks Jc Qh .451
6s 8d 3h .549

Js Ts Qh .507
Ah Jc 6h .493

Remember, we're referring so someone who completes *every* time. As you can see, there is opportunity for profit against this sort, provided they make sufficient mistakes later in the hand - which virtually all of these donks, who comlete every time they're the sole low card on board, do. I've found the weak players are there for a reason - and attacking them is a reasonable course of action. If one doesn't have the stomach for the variance involved then simply folding doesn't lose all that much, but it certainly won't maximize EV.

[Andy B]

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Js Ts Qh .547
Jc 6s 7s .453

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So we're barely a favorite when the other guy has complete crap. Even if the other guy is completing with anything, we're going to be out of position, and we'll be forced to make Fundamental Theorem errors when his board develops. I honestly don't think I'm giving up anything at all by passing on these hands every time.

QJ9 has the same chance of making a straight as KQJ.

[SweetLuckyMe]

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Js Ts Qh .547
Jc 6s 7s .453

[/ QUOTE ]

So we're barely a favorite when the other guy has complete crap. Even if the other guy is completing with anything, we're going to be out of position, and we'll be forced to make Fundamental Theorem errors when his board develops. I honestly don't think I'm giving up anything at all by passing on these hands every time.

QJ9 has the same chance of making a straight as KQJ.

[/ QUOTE ] You've missed the point, entirely. If you don't think you're giving up anything then you can't think you make better decisions than the donk bringing in full all the time. If that's truly the case then find another game.

[Andy B]

The fact that I don't agree with you doesn't mean that I don't understand you. And the fact that I don't think that this is an advantageous situation doesn't prevent me from having an edge over this guy, and to be sure, it doesn't prevent me from having an edge in the game. If he's bringing it in full with anything underneath, he's likely making other errors that I can and will take advantage of.

[PokrLikeItsProse]

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The major deciding factor is how well the bringin plays on later streets. Will he peel after bricking 4th? How about 5th? Will he call down with a small 2pr?

[/ QUOTE ]

Let's say that is someone who is aggressive and picks spots for bluff raises. He's not a maniac, but he is capable of an occasional three-bet bluff to keep me on my toes. He's not really a call down sort of guy. If he bricks 4th, he will sometimes represent that brick paired one of his hole cards and sometimes it actually does pair one of his hole cards and I can't figure out what percentage of the time he is likely to be bluffing. I hate having a hand like a pair of tens on third against this sort of player. I feel like I understand how to play against this sort of action in stud-high, but I get very confused in high-low.