Stop talking about the games getting harder...

[Mondogarage]

OP is living in a dream world. Given what he accurately said, ("The average recreational player doesn't trust the sites are not rigged. The are unsure of the legality. The don't know if they will be able to get their money out"), everything else is irrelevant.

You're talking about the *recreational* player. It's not relevant whether or not the games are "beatable" or not. It's not the game you're taking on, it's the other players at the table. And with all the strong disincentives for the recreational player to takes risks re rigged sites, inability to withdraw, etc., when there's plenty of bar poker, casino action, and home games to be found, having someone shill to them is meaningless.

OP probably also thinks that a carve-out for poker is a done deal, too. The average recreational player wants to win money, sure, but they also want to play with convenience and trust. They don't want to have to sort through pre-paid VISAs to find one that might work, or hope that a site doesn't close their account, or pray that their withdrawal request actually goes thorugh. That's what makes them recreational players. And given the playing options they do still have...the result is obvious.

I'm thinking OP thinks a poker carve-out is a done deal, too.

Hell, the FBI is even looking into gambling taking place in Second Life. The hard core player will always find ways to play online, but absent clear evidence in their eyes that the game is now safe and legal, the truly rec player is lost to the winds.

The truth is, the game *has* gotten harder. If you want to lie to your friends, to convince them to play, just in order to make the game easier for *you*, then you're not exactly their friend now, are you? You want to recruit fresh fish into the pool? Then get the laws changed.

[morphball]

[ QUOTE ]
The truth is, the game *has* gotten harder. If you want to lie to your friends, to convince them to play, just in order to make the game easier for *you*, then you're not exactly their friend now, are you? You want to recruit fresh fish into the pool? Then get the laws changed.


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You see, this is exactly my point, a bunch of mediocre players, who were never good to start with, and claiming the games are just too hard now. So much of this the "games are unbeatable now" crap is just mediocre break-even players looking for an excuse instead of doing the hard work of looking into their game.

[AbreuTime]

I dig your post OP. I'm on board.

[Emperor]

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I dig your post OP. I'm on board.

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High Stakes Players only remain high stakes players because they actively recruit fish into their games.

By not recruiting fish into whatever game that you happen to play, you are shooting yourself in the foot.

IOW the OP is spot on and we should ALL be recruiting.

[lefty rosen]

Actually at WSEX the games are neutral with 100 percent rake returned. Encourage the the fishy players to go there and they may have a shot to bust even or lose real slowy..... [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/ooo.gif[/img]

[Mondogarage]

[ QUOTE ]
You see, this is exactly my point, a bunch of mediocre players, who were never good to start with, and claiming the games are just too hard now.

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Actually, I never said the games are unbeatable, or too hard, though the numbers clearly show more rocks per table than pre-UIGEA. And it's also plainly clear that UIGEA has had a lot to do with it, because it is more difficult to deposit, sometimes impossible to withdraw, and certainly a bigger pain in the butt to the most casual users, to play.

[ QUOTE ]
So much of this the "games are unbeatable now" crap is just mediocre break-even players looking for an excuse instead of doing the hard work of looking into their game.

[/ QUOTE ]

In the interests of not harshing on your buzz, I avoided saying the very same to you. You're the one who seems more desperate to find some new fish. I'm thinking if you spent less time trying to recruit people to your cause -- which appears from your text to be trying to convince the general public that it's as easy as it ever was to play online for mobnies -- and more time working on your game, you'd be able to beat everyone at your tables and not have to worry about finding fresh fish, because you'd already be pwning all your opponents.

Me? I won't claim to be balla, but I'll play whoever sits down, and if I can't beat 'em, then I know it's time to find the leak, not whine about how there's not enough fish. Your OP seems to be doing that.

[E.Z.]

i pretty much tell anyone who asks that they will not lose much (if any) while clearing bonus at the low stakes.

that being said, only a few of my friends that play live have signed up.

i'm retired from recuiting....
ez

[Dazarath]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The truth is, the game *has* gotten harder. If you want to lie to your friends, to convince them to play, just in order to make the game easier for *you*, then you're not exactly their friend now, are you? You want to recruit fresh fish into the pool? Then get the laws changed.


[/ QUOTE ]

You see, this is exactly my point, a bunch of mediocre players, who were never good to start with, and claiming the games are just too hard now. So much of this the "games are unbeatable now" crap is just mediocre break-even players looking for an excuse instead of doing the hard work of looking into their game.

[/ QUOTE ]

Strawman

[xxx]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The truth is, the game *has* gotten harder. If you want to lie to your friends, to convince them to play, just in order to make the game easier for *you*, then you're not exactly their friend now, are you? You want to recruit fresh fish into the pool? Then get the laws changed.


[/ QUOTE ]

You see, this is exactly my point, a bunch of mediocre players, who were never good to start with, and claiming the games are just too hard now. So much of this the "games are unbeatable now" crap is just mediocre break-even players looking for an excuse instead of doing the hard work of looking into their game.

[/ QUOTE ]

"Getting harder" is not equal to "too hard". Compared to 2003, the first is true for everyone, whereas the second is only true for 85% or so.

[Mondogarage]

Frankly, the game *should* be getting harder, because as more players who came in during the boom play longer, most can't help but get better, to some extent.

Of course, the OP's numbers on Sharkscope are -34% ROI at an average stake of $2, and a present form of "Super Tilt", and his MTT numbers are like -98% ROI.