Dumping.

[Brainwalter]

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Does anyone know of examples of predatory pricing?

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Wal-Mart, obv. They're hawking super-low prices right now just so they can establish their monopoly, and then, once they've outcompeted every retail store into oblivion, then they will gouge prices to the moon and your shaving cream will cost $20 a can and the Walton brats will go MWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!

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Actually the bigger problem with Wal-Mart is that it forces producers to lower prices, but I'm sure you knew that.

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Telling it's distibuters that they have to lower prices or they won't deal with them isn't force.

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It's not a problem either. Oh noes, lower costs of production! More efficient business practices!

[xorbie]

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Do you guys honestly not think I can force someone to do something without a gun? Really? Is this not some sort of elaborate joke?

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Why don't you tell us what you think force is. If you act like a douchebag and I say you can't be my friend if you treat me like that, am I "forcing" you to do anything? if you're selling pancakes for $500 and I say I won't eat at your resturant unless you lower prices am I "forcing" you to do anything? You still have the right to selll pancakes at $500, no?

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If I have no food or property and no means of getting them whatsoever, am I "forced" to do work in order to get money, regardless of how crappy it is? Or is my "choice" to starve to death sufficient in this moral fairy land?

[xorbie]

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It's not a problem either. Oh noes, lower costs of production! More efficient business practices!


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If by lower costs of production you mean firing a ton of people and lowering salaries so that real wages end up going down even though prices drop then yeah. And it's a problem.

[ShakeZula06]

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Do you guys honestly not think I can force someone to do something without a gun? Really? Is this not some sort of elaborate joke?

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Why don't you tell us what you think force is. If you act like a douchebag and I say you can't be my friend if you treat me like that, am I "forcing" you to do anything? if you're selling pancakes for $500 and I say I won't eat at your resturant unless you lower prices am I "forcing" you to do anything? You still have the right to selll pancakes at $500, no?

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If I have no food or property and no means of getting them whatsoever, am I "forced" to do work in order to get money, regardless of how crappy it is? Or is my "choice" to starve to death sufficient in this moral fairy land?

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So you're not going to answer any of my questions, just going to ask your own then throw in an insult at the end? Can't say I'm suprised.

[xorbie]

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So you're not going to answer any of my questions, just going to ask your own then throw in an insult at the end? Can't say I'm suprised.


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Given that you didn't answer my question, I felt it necessary to be more specific. In reply to your question, obviously no.

[ShakeZula06]

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So you're not going to answer any of my questions, just going to ask your own then throw in an insult at the end? Can't say I'm suprised.


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Given that you didn't answer my question, I felt it necessary to be more specific. In reply to your question, obviously no.

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Did you really not mean this question to be rhetorical?-
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Do you guys honestly not think I can force someone to do something without a gun? Really? Is this not some sort of elaborate joke?


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If you really want an answer, no. Force to me pretty much is any action against a person that is not consensual. I find the idea that Wal-Mart is "forcing" people ludicrus because their producers have a choice. They can either deal with Wal-Mart under wal-mart's terms, or they can just not deal with them. They don't have some right to do business with Wal-Mart. Niether does Wal-Mart have some right to there business. Voluntary contracts between the two theoretically match the participants percieved worth of the other participant's business.

[xorbie]

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If you really want an answer, no. Force to me pretty much is any action against a person that is not consensual.

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Ugh. I assume changing your mind on this is probably out of the question so I'll just try to avoid you in the future. The fact that you speak of "volunatary" conracts when one party is about to starve to death is just a bit ridiculous. Rather ironic given the importance of Locke to natural rights theory.

[ShakeZula06]

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Ugh. I assume changing your mind on this is probably out of the question

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Not really. I'd like to think that if I'm open minded enough to accept something so counter-intuitive to what I've been told all my life (AC) that I'm open minded to change my mind if I'm shown wrong. Take a shot.
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The fact that you speak of "volunatary" conracts when one party is about to starve to death is just a bit ridiculous.

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Wal Mart's distributers are starving to death? Now who's being ridiculous. You can help them out if you want.

[xorbie]

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Ugh. I assume changing your mind on this is probably out of the question

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Not really. I'd like to think that if I'm open minded enough to accept something so counter-intuitive to what I've been told all my life (AC) that I'm open minded to change my mind if I'm shown wrong. Take a shot.

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I've taken my shot.

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The fact that you speak of "volunatary" conracts when one party is about to starve to death is just a bit ridiculous.

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Wal Mart's distributers are starving to death? Now who's being ridiculous. You can help them out if you want.

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This was a clear reference to the example I just gave: someone starving to death who needs to work for money. To say that they aren't "forced" to do a really crappy job is ridiculous.

edit: You can say the employer himself isn't forcing the person, but they are forced. This is fact.

[The once and future king]

Its not about force, its about power. Force is just one way of obtaining power but it is not the only way.

By power, I mean the ability to control/influence the behavior of another being.

If by social arrangement (pred pricing or whatever) one party can put another party in a situation where they are given the options comply or die, this is the same net result of someone having a gun put to there head and having the choice comply or die.

Naked force is actually a piss poor form of social power. Ability to control or manage social arrangements is far superior.