Too aggressive for weak kicker? 2/4 6max

[Oink]

This is a very easy preflop raise IMO. In general you shouldnt overlimp just 1 limper. If he limps he is bad... Isolate him!

After a preflop raise, the hand plays a lot easier.

[Apanage]

I would raise preflop. I would just call turn very worried about being behind. But on the other hand I would bet river when checked to me

[Guy McSucker]

[ QUOTE ]
I would just call turn very worried about being behind. But on the other hand I would bet river when checked to me

[/ QUOTE ]

For sure, if we call the turn and he checks the river we have an easy bet. But here, after threebetting the flop and raising the turn, we've way way way overplayed our hand and it's more than possible that we have convinced a better hand to check-call the river.

We should have slowed down on the flop - the threebet is excessive - and we certainly should have slowed down on the turn after all that action. Now we have the chance to slow down again, on the river; we should take this one at least!

Guy.

[yourface]

it can be very hard to put donkish villains on hands. in this case I would put villain on TPTK or better, but I recognise that there is a chance he could have worse. I call thinking that I am drawing most of the time, but occasionally will have the best hand. I would rather have BB padding the pot here with his likely 3rd best hand than try to force him out when I think I am most likely behind.

putting villain on "lots of T's" is wishful thinking IMO.

[Apanage]

I stand corrected. I agree that the river check is the best play against all sane opponents.

[Guy McSucker]

[ QUOTE ]
I stand corrected. I agree that the river check is the best play against all sane opponents.

[/ QUOTE ]

May I ask what changed your mind?

Or are you being sarcastic here?

Guy.

[Apanage]

I´m not sarcastic. I realized I played turn like I would and river as if I would have called turn. But If I raised river as hero did I would have raised for a free showdown.
So I totally agree with your post.There is probably no point to river bet.I also think a 3-bet on flop is bad.

[Rounder 24/7]

ok ok ok ... 3-bet flop is a bad move. would u bet/fold that turn or just go into call down from his flop raise?

[Apanage]

As played I would have called down from turn. He is either dumb or afraid of giving freecards with what he thinks is the best hand and behind us we have a player that coldcalled two on flop.But if I just called his raise on flop then I think a turn raise has it´s merits because I do believe that we can fold to most turn 3-bettors and at the same time we charge draws

[sweetjazz]

Rounder, first you should raise preflop. Your hand has good value and you have good position. Whether your raise isolates the limper or creates a big multiway pot, you should be happy with your hand.

On the flop, a read on UTG is very important! If you are playing without reads, then you are just guessing. And it's hard to win at poker if you are stabbing in the dark with each decision.

That said, if UTG is fairly tight and passive, you should fold the flop. There's too good of a chance you are behind JT/KJ/AJ and the pot is small (because you didn't raise preflop). I think you're ahead of the BB more often than not, so the key read is what hands UTG could have and what he would raise the flop with.

As played the turn is tricky. The pot is big enough that you are happy to try to knock out BB if he has a hand like overcard + gutshot (e.g. K9). That said, it's unlikely he's folding and you may find yourself being 3bet, in which case you either have to fold and sacrifice some potential outs (e.g. if the 3bettor has JT) or call when you are possibly drawing dead (e.g. if the 3bettor has 33).

When you get to the river, I think you should check behind because you have overrepresented your hand and I just think it is too likely someone has a hand like KJ or better and is planning on calling you down.

BTW, the flop is basically a 3bet or fold situation. And whatever you do, don't look to build a big pot so that you can take a bet/fold line. Basically, if you are building big pots and then folding to single turn raises or river raises with a high frequency, you won't be successful at limit HE.

As a general piece of advice Rounder, I think you focus a bit too much on what play is right in your posts as opposed to what you should be thinking and what hand ranges your opponents have. I think it's great you post a lot of hands and are open to suggestions, but I think you might be looking too much for "what's the right decision" advice instead of "how do i make the right decision" advice. (In particular, there's no way anyone can tell whether your flop 3bet was good or not here, because we don't have a read on UTG. If you didn't have a read on UTG at the table...that's your main problem and all the speculation in this thread isn't going to fix it.)