NLHTP#15 Swapping Mistakes & Adjusting to Loose Games and Players

[xxrod17xx]

I really hate the advice to loosen up in looser games. I may be bias because I am still a low limit player, but you even see this at 10/20-20/40NL on Live at the Bike. Corporation Mike makes the game loosen up and all of a sudden good players are playing hands they shouldnt. I feel strongly about playing really snug, maybe even a short stack in loose games because people are going to be making a lot of big mistakes against you (i.e. calling preflop without getting proper implied odds, calling pre and post flop with dominated hands, calling a tight players bets too much). Again I play 1/2NL in the casino and micro limits online so I probably have a bias towards the strategy that works for me, but loosening up seems to play into LAG players game. Please le me know your thoughts on this because I don't want to have just one view on how to play the game, but this does not seem like a piece of advice that goes with the rest of the themes in this book.

[GiantBuddha]

There's different types of loose games, and there's different ways of loosening up.

In a game where lots of players like to limp in and then play reasonably well on the flop, loosening up might not get you too far. However, if your opponents like to limp and then play too loose with their drawing and one pair hands after the flop, you've found a very profitable game. In a game like this you should probably play many hands cheap and then punish your opponents who make mistakes for big bets down the line.

In a game where lots of players like to call raises of 8-10BB cold to see a flop, then play reasonably well from there, you should probably tighten up and make most of your money from the big preflop mistakes your opponents are making. A lot of live $1-2 games play this way.

In general, if postflop play isn't one of your strengths, then loosening up can get very dangerous. I find myself usually playing against the grain, where online I play much looser than live, while the games are much tighter than live. Trying to steal blinds in the live games I play isn't really an option, though. It's also critical to be very aware of the "mistakes" which you're trading and to make sure you don't give up so much that your opponents aren't giving it back and then some.

[LearningCurve]

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I really hate the advice to loosen up in looser games. I may be bias because I am still a low limit player, but you even see this at 10/20-20/40NL on Live at the Bike. Corporation Mike makes the game loosen up and all of a sudden good players are playing hands they shouldnt. I feel strongly about playing really snug, maybe even a short stack in loose games because people are going to be making a lot of big mistakes against you (i.e. calling preflop without getting proper implied odds, calling pre and post flop with dominated hands, calling a tight players bets too much). Again I play 1/2NL in the casino and micro limits online so I probably have a bias towards the strategy that works for me, but loosening up seems to play into LAG players game. Please le me know your thoughts on this because I don't want to have just one view on how to play the game, but this does not seem like a piece of advice that goes with the rest of the themes in this book.

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Yes, this is the first time I've ever heard to play looser in a looser game. [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] Maybe the idea is that if you are a good post-flop player then it may behoove you to splash around a bit more in position. Obviously when you miss you get out quickly and cheaply, but when you hit you can value bet into the villain for everything he's worth. IDK, I'm certainly still working on my post-flop play so this might not be a good move for me, but perhaps more experienced and better post-flop players may find it advantageous?

[GiantBuddha]

I personally try to play a few extra hands when I can so that I'll become a better postflop player. It's hard to learn without practice. Of course, I try not to get retarted with it.

[wallenborn]

[ QUOTE ]
Yes, this is the first time I've ever heard to play looser in a looser game. [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] Maybe the idea is that if you are a good post-flop player then it may behoove you to splash around a bit more in position.

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Position is the key. If you generally lower your opening standards, you'll not be able to exploit a loose player's mistakes. But against most loose players there is a range of hands that become playable from late position.

Many loose passive players play easily dominated hands, so you'd expect those limpers to have a baby ace or baby king quite often. Postflop they tend to hang on to TPNK too long, and some have a habit of looking you up with any pocket pair. So on the flop, top pair with a medium kicker usually is good enough. All you have to do is make sure nobody traps you with a monster. Since loose-passive players will tell you reliably what they have on the flop, that should be not too hard.

Loose-aggressive players are a different breed. A9s is hard to play against such an opponent, even in position. Against these players i want to see as many cheap flops on the button and cutoff with connectors, suited aces, suited one-gappers, and pocket pairs. Every now and then i'll flop a monster and then it's hasta la vista, baby.

So: against both types of loose players loosen up yourself, but don't loosen up indiscriminately. Be selective in what direction you open up your game.

[capodu]

[ QUOTE ]
I feel strongly about playing really snug, maybe even a short stack in loose games because people are going to be making a lot of big mistakes against you (i.e. calling preflop without getting proper implied odds, calling pre and post flop with dominated hands, calling a tight players bets too much).

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This is completely wrong... any decent loose player will notice that you are playing tight and snug and not pay you off in much at all. The thing that this chapter is saying is making money off of your opponents mistakes. This comes about the fact that against loose-passive/agressive or loose-passive/passive players you can play more hands against them since you will be playing better then them post flop (a loose-passive/tight-aggressive game). Since you are going to be a better post flop player then playing as many hands as possible agaisnt them will increase your earning even though you are playing marginal hands.

[xxrod17xx]

I see what you are saying, but not playing snug against loose players or in loose games are for loose players that are thinking....Fortunately I play at limits where people make comments on how incredibly tight I play, but they are still calling my bets all the way down. So I guess this answers the question that I was being biased towards the way I play because I don't play against good LAG players. BTW I have a 10.96 VP$IP (Mostly because I play short in every session) and a PFR% of 5.92.

[Red_Diamond]

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Yes, this is the first time I've ever heard to play looser in a looser game.

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A lot of my older books, seem to advocate to play tight when the game is loose, and vica-versa. The newer literature, or at least the stuff by more hardened writers tends to lean towards the opposite.