Killing off the little guy (this time it's internet radio)

[pvn]

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I call it an "ice cream cone". I start collecting some money and materials to build my ice cream cone stand, and right across the street someone else opens a "Ice Cream Conicals." Now I can't open my store because it looks like a rip off. And I'm screwed because my deal was to make money off of the ice cream cone sales

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"Ice Cream Conicals." from a different source is not the the same as your "ice cream cone" from your stand. If i come and take your "ice cream cone" and then sell it as my own thats theft right?

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No. It might be breach of contract IF we had a contract that specified he wouldn't engage in such a business. But there's no theft; I still have everything I had before the imposter set up his business.

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I beleive your are confusing patent with copyright. A crappy song is not a scarce concept but "OOPS I did it again" by Britany Spears IS (thankfully) a scarce idea. You can make all the crappy bublegum songs you want but you cannot steal from Briteny and sell her songs.

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No, neither are scarce. I can copy a crappy song just as easily as oops I did it again.

And if you read the thread, I have zero problem with copyright (in theory - particular implementations are another thing).

[pvn]

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I have no objection to this. So why didn't you use that contract in your demo tape example?

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All artists use this contract all the time even without knowing they are doing it its called copyright.

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So all you'd have to do here is only demo the tape for those who agree to your terms. Wow, that was hard.

[pvn]

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Stealing someones time, resources, creativity and ingenuity
is still theft even if its only copying a CD that you didn't buy.

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Copying a CD isn't stealing anyone's time, resources, creativity, or ingenuity. The author has all of those things in the same amounts whether I copy his CD or not.

[Skidoo]

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If the ideas aren't scarce, is the time and resources devoted to creating, recording and reproducing them scarce?

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I think you're on to something. The relevant scarcity is in creative innovation which, if not protected by exclusive rights, would effectively fall under the eminent domain of the collective.

[NeBlis]

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Copying a CD isn't stealing anyone's time, resources, creativity, or ingenuity. The author has all of those things in the same amounts whether I copy his CD or not.


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It is if you sell "bootleg" that CD if you are refering to copying for personal use then sure your right.

Note what i said specificly about the ice cream problem.

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If i come and take your "ice cream cone" and then sell it as my own thats theft right?



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[pvn]

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You can make all the crappy bublegum songs you want but you cannot steal from Briteny and sell her songs.

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I like how you try to compare a vague class of things to a particular instance.

Also, you are conflating the issue of scarcity with copyright (and possibly fraud, though I'm not sure).

Please demonstrate why "oops I did it again" is scarce. When you mentioned it to me, did you instantly forget about it?

[pvn]

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Copying a CD isn't stealing anyone's time, resources, creativity, or ingenuity. The author has all of those things in the same amounts whether I copy his CD or not.


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It is if you sell "bootleg" that CD if you are refering to copying for personal use then sure your right.

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What difference does it make if it's for personal use or not? Whether I give the copy to Joe or throw it in the trash makes no difference. Britney is not deprived of time in one case, and not in the other.

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Note what i said specificly about the ice cream problem.

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If i come and take your "ice cream cone" and then sell it as my own thats theft right?



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Ah, I see. Yes, that's theft (because the cone is scarce). It makes no difference if you sell it or not. So, in your example above, copying for personal use must be as bad as doing so for "commercial gain" or whatever you want to call it.

[NeBlis]

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If the ideas aren't scarce, is the time and resources devoted to creating, recording and reproducing them scarce?

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I think you're on to something. The relevant scarcity is in creative innovation which, if not protected by exclusive rights, would effectively fall under the eminent domain of the collective.

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JEEBUS H CRUST !! I agree with Skidoo.

[NeBlis]

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Please demonstrate why "oops I did it again" is scarce. When you mentioned it to me, did you instantly forget about it?

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How could I forget that sexy little tart in her school girl outfit? She's the one who "did it again" not you she and her distribution company sold you the listening rights to her scarce idea. If you violate that contract by selling her idea that is theft and wrong. If you only listen to the music while rubbing one out thinking of school girls then that's fine.

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What difference does it make if it's for personal use or not? Whether I give the copy to Joe or throw it in the trash makes no difference. Britney is not deprived of time in one case, and not in the other.


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Because the defacto contract of purchasing a piece of music or art includes the assumption on the part of the seller that you are only consuming the product and not marketing it. I am sure that they would charge you a different amount if you wanted to copy and distribute the product.

Giving the CD to Joe is taking their product and giving it away for free, just like taking a car from a dealership and giving it to your girlfriend. Throwing it in the trash harms no one but you for wasting the CD so who cares.

[BCPVP]

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Please demonstrate why "oops I did it again" is scarce. When you mentioned it to me, did you instantly forget about it?

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How could I forget that sexy little tart in her school girl outfit? She's the one who "did it again" not you she and her distribution company sold you the listening rights to her scarce idea. If you violate that contract by selling her idea that is theft and wrong. If you only listen to the music while rubbing one out thinking of school girls then that's fine.

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Not only does NeBlis not understand what economic scarcity means, he doesn't even understand what "demonstrate" means.