Coaching WARNING

[redCashion]

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snowbank, you should have written just a one sentence post:

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I have easily spent 5 hours with OP with all the times he IMs me to chat.

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i think it is more effective that writing all the other stuff.

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I was thinking this too, but I guess the point is that he is not billing IM time. Snowbank may have done a poor job managing his student's expectations, and should have let him know that he would only spend time on IM during a session if that's what he believed should be the case. But really for the price he was paying I don't think some extra time spent on AIM beyond the sessions sounds unreasonable.

[JReezy]

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I believe he IS going to try and work it out....but thats for him to say, not me. However, I certainly understand snowbank's restraint in that his name has been dragged through the mud here by OP, after not really doing anything wrong at all to OP. And OP DID imply at the beginning that losing BR was correllated to sb's coaching.

As for teh question of ethics, I was a tennis coach until very recently, and we had similar deals. Pay X for Z lessons. If half way through the course some1 didn't want the rest of lessons b/c he wanted to give up tennis (basically what is happening here) then I wouldn't give nay of the money back, and I think thats 100% OK ethically, as would all the other coaches at the various clubs I was at, where this situation came up.

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i coach tennis as well and have been to many different clubs and know many different coaches as i play varsity for my college (umd), and i do not know of a single coach who doesn't refund lessons that were paid for in advance as long as there is 24 hrs notice. it just doesn't happen. simply not worth the negative word of mouth because usually the pupil knows your other pupils, losing a couple lessons is not a big deal compared to losing several potential long term clients etc. etc.

[nation]

"In other words, in the business world, if you want to be making a couple hundred grand a year, you sure as hell better be giving your customers A+++ attention."

pretty much exactly what i told snowbank.

[El Diablo]

Matt,

Just wanted to correct one point:

"Any business person pulling down that kind of money [$250k] is going to be answering cell calls while he's on vacation in Hawaii."

That's false.

[MatthewRyan]

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Matt,

Just wanted to correct one point:

"Any business person pulling down that kind of money [$250k] is going to be answering cell calls while he's on vacation in Hawaii."

That's false.

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El D- While that is true, the point is still there and very valid.

[Isura]

I feel bad for the OP. Basically getting scammed out of a big chunk of your bankroll sucks. Pretty unethical and a poor business decision by snowbank. Also, $200/hr for the services of a winning 1/2 NL player, wtf.

[pokersanjuan]

He won't let me give the hours to other students either.

He is just straight pocketing the money.

[Michaelson]

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And finally, can one of the "Snowbank shouldn't have to pay back the prepaid time" crew please explain, apart from saying that "pokersanjuan paid up front so tough titties" exactly why Snowbank should keep the cash?

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It's not that he *should keep* the money. It's that he's under no real legal or ethical obligation to pay it back.

OP got ripped off by paying waaay over the odds for someone with no reputation for coaching and committing to a ridiculous 5 hours up front with no idea what he was getting. Not because Snowbank isn't willing to refund the money.

Edit: I should obviously point out that this is mainly OP's fault.

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No legal obligation, possibly, but no ethical obligation? Are you serious?

The focus on legalality and business implications is beside the point, IMO. This is a gambling community. Someone's word should be paramount. Now if in fact Snowbank did spend 5 hours of on the clock, coaching time with OP, then I agree that no refund is in order. But if not, if they were both of the understanding that he had 3 hours of coaching time remaining, then Snowbank has to be a real arsehole to refuse to refund that cash. It is irrelavent, I think, that OP mightn't have any legal recourse. Snowbank accepted money for services not delivered. That's [censored].

[Jamougha]

Michael,

there is a huge difference between acting like an arsehole (which I don't presume to judge because I don't have personal knowledge of the case) and acting unethically.

[Michaelson]

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Michael,

there is a huge difference between acting like an arsehole (which I don't presume to judge because I don't have personal knowledge of the case) and acting unethically.

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I disagree. If ethics is concerned with how we should act, "not like a prick" is at least a good guideline to start off with. But we don't need to delve into moral and ethical philosophy I don't think.

I agree that it's probably improper to judge without personal knowledge of the case, though, you're right. I guess I was just responding to the principle espoused by those whose whole take on the facts as they were presented in this thread was "buyer beware, tough [censored] to OP."