Get Your Calculators Out!

[Gabe]

I think most would play all pairs and almost any two suited, here.

I’m curious what off-suit cards you guys play in the blinds getting 9 to 1.

[mike l.]

any two suited here against a pf raise and a bunch of cold callers in the worst position in what is likely an aggressive postflop game is a mistake. high variance and minus EV spew. cut it out. ill play pocket pairs here, some decent suited connected hands and that's about it. i guess AQo and maybe AJo if the pf raiser is a tard. anything else is silly spew. you can only gain by throwing hands like 84s away.

[Joe Tall]

[ QUOTE ]
high variance and minus EV spew. cut it out.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's high variance but it's not minus EV. Given the size of the pot, it's going to be near neutral EV OOP in a 2/3 structure.

[mike l.]

two things:

--suited gappers are bad in games where it's aggro postflop. most 60 games are aggro postflop. you dont want to be drawing, espcially to non-nut hands, when it's going to be 4 bets on the flop and raised often on the turn. R. I. O.

--position matters more than you realise in spots like this. a simple example is the times you flop a flush but then a fourth flush card comes on the river. against many opponents they will check the river oop with something like JJ with the J high flush when you have been betting the whole way with a small flush. they will fear they were drawing dead and now check. but when you check to them oop on the river they will now correctly bet. that BB is pretty significant, esp. in a big pot against a donkey who you might feel compelled to call against with something like the 8 high flush.

the intuitive mediocre play is to call with 84s in this spot. the more nuanced, educated play is to release your hand and wait for a better spot to gamble with a marginal hand.

[andyfox]

Depends on the game. In 20-40, I'll play more hands because I know I can get to the turn or river cheaply; in 60-120, fewer because I'm going to have to put in too many bets, usually, on the flop with my vulnerable crap. 8-4 is a fold in 60-120 for me. Suited, schmooted. I let suited have more importance in more passive games.

Maybe the 60-120 is indeed more passive in Vegas, but I note Justin put in 5 bets on the flop.

[Justin A]

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Depends on the game. In 20-40, I'll play more hands because I know I can get to the turn or river cheaply; in 60-120, fewer because I'm going to have to put in too many bets, usually, on the flop with my vulnerable crap. 8-4 is a fold in 60-120 for me. Suited, schmooted. I let suited have more importance in more passive games.

Maybe the 60-120 is indeed more passive in Vegas, but I note Justin put in 5 bets on the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd say in general the 60 game is fairly aggressive, but I'm usually not in it. If I'm in the game, it's because it's much softer than usual. This hand was really weird, it was usually much more passive. A screw came loose in MP's head, as he was normally quite passive but felt the need to raise and 4bet this flop with J7o.