What's Better Than Not Being Born?- Another Axiom Queston

[etxel]

I think to wish not having been born, 2 criteria have to be met. 1. The specific person's life situation is such that he/she rather not be living 2. No hope that the life situation will improve.
That negative situation depends on the person.
For example someone that is locked for life in a cave without food, drink and being tortured every hour might be thankful for being born because of a good memory from the past that keeps him happy (good situation), etc, etc, or because he is hopeful that he will get out or looks forward to the time in between beatings.
On the other hand someone who has everything, lives in a mansion with a pool and a hot wife, might wish he was never born because for some reason he might be constantly depressed on prozac and can not find happiness in anything (just because "the way his brain is wired") and has no hope of his situation ever improving.

By "hope of the situation" I mean anything during life or after life.

[etxel]

correction:

By "hope of the situation improving" I mean anything during life of after life.

[She]

I think I disagree w/ the majority of posts here. I may be over simplifying it, but I believe that a person would simply have to value non-existence over existence in order to wish that they had never been born.

I also think OP's post is a little ambiguous as there are a couple ways this could happen and some people may have different feelings about each. I would prefer to avoid the artificially induced abortion issue because I think wishing that you had been aborted is a different issue than wishing that you had never been born. There actually have been a couple instances where a child was aborted and survived, and I'm pretty sure that no one would wish this. (Link) Also I believe that it may be a deterrent for some people for two reasons. 1) Abortion is viewed by many Christians as wrong and they may not want to cause another person to sin, and 2) It is believed my some (myself included) that some of the procedures used in abortion cause pain to the fetus and they would not wish to experience pain. There is also the possibility of either being conceived and spontaneously aborted very early in the pregnancy, or of never being conceived at all.

I don't think that a person would have to live a life that is specifically horrendous, or that has no hope of improving in order to wish he had never been born. Rather I think they would just have to be living a life that has relatively low value to them when compared with non-existence. Anyone whose pain out weighs his pleasures, or who felt that their live was more of a burden than a blessing, or even anyone who does not value the pleasures and passions of life over the ease of non-existence could wish that they had not been born. Also, I think this would be an incredibly easy choice for religious people who believe in an afterlife, but are not "sure" of where they will go if they die, and believe that all babies automatically go to heaven if they die. (This is related primarily to being conceived, and spontaneously aborted early in the pregnancy.)

I think any apathetic person who simply feels empty and has no purpose, would be justified in wishing that they had never been born.

-- She

[valenzuela]

imagine that when u die, god tells do u want to live ure life all over again( making the same mistakes, etc) or do u want to go into a state of non existence.( if u live ure life all over again once u die u go to the same state of non existence).
The suicide answer is horrible. I could have a hell of a time for my first 60 years, then I dunno I get depressed and kill myself that DOES NOT mean that I wouldnt live my life all over again.

[theblitz]

A quote from the Talmud (Tractate Eruvin 13b):

[ QUOTE ]

For two and a half years the houses of Shammai and Hillel argued.
These say "A person would be better off had he not been created than being created" and these "A person would be better off not being created than being created".
Finally they agreed that "A person would be better off not being created than being created. However, now that he HAS been created he should do good for himself and for others."

[/ QUOTE ]

[stewy]

Many cases of suicide, I would imagine, are committed due to a sense of loss of past pleasures (i.e. after a divorce/bankruptcy, etc.). Committing suicide, then, might be an affirmation of the desirability of past life experience.

I personally would wish non-existence only if my existence caused great harm. For example, if I was responsible for the loss of many lives due to my negligence as, say, a pilot, or a nuclear plant safety officer, I might wish that I had never been born.

[Mickey Brausch]

[ QUOTE ]
In a nutshell how bad does someone's life have to be such they would instead choose to [never have being born], if that was somehow possible.

[/ QUOTE ]A person who has been abused all his life, from day one onwards, as a slave worker and/or sex object, would prob'ly qualify quite nicely. Total absence of love, warmth and affection in one's already miserable life does the trick. Little good in one's life to hang on to.

BTW, the "better" in your title should read "worse".

[ALawPoker]

Nothing is possibly better or worse than not being born. It just is. This is something I'm sure of.

[Max Raker]

I think the percentage of lives today that I would take is less than 5%. I dont think my life is that great either, pretty sad that I'm probably in the top 90% atleast.

[seemorenuts]

Pain, or the absence of joy, seems to be a common idea; but meaning should supercede this.

A life devoid of common pleasures could be compensated for by delivering meaning to others, examples include inspirational and informational (think of Hawking, though I am certain that he'd choose existence).

What's ironic is how many of us lead meaningless lives yet we view pain/suffering as the worse alternative.