disappointment - and goodbye

[bkholdem]

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sam, the way to engage in meaningful discussion on these forums is to talk about specific hands. any thread where people are primarily discussing winrates or any of that other stuff are going to have fairly limited discourse.

you seem like a good guy and good player (I don't remember having played w/you however), and I hope you'll stick around and offer your comments/analysis on the hands people post as well as posting some interesting hands you've played.



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Why is this THE way?

[fsuplayer]

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Very immature and childish and not something I expected from you.


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i really didnt want to get into this any more, but could you point out where i was being childish?





i am a logical person and a realist.

in this forum i kind of have the reputation of raining on people's parades as far as variance and winrates are concerned.

the reason i do this doesnt stem from jealousy or even immaturity, in fact, i think its quite the opposite.

i have played more hands at the 1k and 2k games since they started than most people on here.

i consider myself to be quite realistic when discussing winrates, variance, opponents etc.

so when a poster, new or old, good player or bad, starts talking about winrates and yearly expectations without having a clue as to how their winrate through 60k hands stacks up to their longterm WR in the game, i cant resist trying add some sense into the thread.


here's a great example. for a 100k stretch of hands, i ran at 6bb/100, which would put me on pace for around $1.2million for the year. sounds good to me.

except, that during the next 100k hands, i ran the worst i have ever ran, (or seen anyone else run) for an extended period. i was under 1bb/100.


so...when threads get started about how easy it is to make $1 million a year at the 2k games, or how you made $6m the last two years, i cant help but chime in with my thoughts and experiance in games i have played for the last year, day in and day out.


and regarding your original thread, you have lurked here long enough to know that winrate and hourly rate threads are always a complete mess, so if your intention as you say "talk about LAG style, turning pro, etc. " then you are smart enought to know that you should have never mentioned that number.

i have nothing against you and to tell you the truth, you seem like a real nice guy.

i hope you stay and post. i really do.


btw, although not to this extent, KKF was flamed alot for various things but people also knew he had a alot to say, and they listened. he eventually matured and is a very good poster for the most part.

you clearly already have the maturity and good stuff to say, so i hope you can look past this stuff and stick around.

-fsuplayer

[El Diablo]

sam and others:

The problem here is that if someone makes major false statements about themselves, it undermines the validity of their whole contribution to the forum. People use a combination of things like winrate, experience in games, and posting quality to judge whether someone's advice is likely to be correct or not. To those saying that certain discussions are valuable regardless of this, that's often just not true. If someone is claiming they can win xxx with a certain style, yet are actually only winning 1/4 of that, the discussion can be just a big waste of time.

sam, you can easily become a valuable and respected member of this forum by doing the following. Just tell us generally, over the last two to three years that you've been playing, what games/sites you were playing for the most part and what username you used on those sites. A number of us are familiar with all the games/sites you've mentioned and can verify whether or not the information you give is reasonable.

[samoleus]

Diablo, I thought I had already done so. I think it has been established even by those doubting my number that I am a significantly winning player. Is it really necessary to verify (or even trust for that matter) the numbers that I have provided before being able to address the points that I discussed or to provide the advice that I sought?

I do not see how one is related to the other. I am soured and annoyed that my original post - one that I obviously put a lot of thought into - was completely disregarded in favor of incessant e-mails about whether or not I really made what I had claimed to have made (which I did not even introduce except to refute KKF).

However, if for nothing else than for completeness - and perhaps the hope that you - who seem to be one of the most if not THE most respected poster in the forum might provide me with some answers to my original questions, I will accomodate your request (though I feel it superfluous and unnecessary).

I have played on Gaming Club, UB, Planet Poker, and of course Party Poker. Over the last 2 years and eight months, I have used the following handles, changing them somewhat frequently: punketty, fetchthefetch, custamato, treblah, and samoleus - and have on rare occasion played on two friends' accounts entitled thehulk and johnnyt. On Party, I have only used punketty and samoleus. My primary site was Planet in the very beginning until I outgrew those small games. Then it was Gaming Club with an occasional jaunt into UB. After Party introduced the 2K game, it was primarily on Party, though I played a fair amount at Party 1K as well. After much experimentation, I have found that my most profitable situation is 4-tabling Party 2K NL.

My usual times of play have to date been very early in the morning (5:30am-9am) and around 3pm-6pm-ish.

Does that provide you with enough information? ... Regardless of whether you choose to investigate the veracity of my claims, I would like to reiterate that I do not think this should be the point and that my original post can be addressed by you and by others without haranguing over my stated win-rate.

In any case, as I said, I have lost interest for the time being in joining this forum. However, I would still be quite grateful if you and other pros have any advice for me. You can if you wish proffer advice as if I was telling the truth if you don't believe me. Alternatively, you can assume that I have made 2 million instead: I would imagine the advice would be similar.

[James282]

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Samoleus,

you come up with an hourly rate and a number of hours per week that over 3 years translate to 5 million dollars 4 tabling. However, party have only had 10-20 NL for, what, 9 months? So even if your 2200 an hour was true it would only be pertinent over the past 9 monhts and thus your total winnings in this game would be WAY less 5 million. So what was the situation - prior to the party 10-20 NL there was another game that you could 4 table for 25 hours a week and make the same hourly rate?

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Dean,

Who gives a [censored]?
-James

[junglewarfare]

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Diablo, I thought I had already done so. I think it has been established even by those doubting my number that I am a significantly winning player. Is it really necessary to verify (or even trust for that matter) the numbers that I have provided before being able to address the points that I discussed or to provide the advice that I sought?

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How can you not see that it is important to verify or have real numbers behind a claim that you are beating games for 15.7 PTBB!!?!?!

No one is debating whether you are a winning player, but how much you have won is pretty important when people are comparing styles. This is not complicated. There is a huge difference between winning 600$ an hour and 2,200$ an hour.

There are a bunch of good reasons to be skeptical of you. You have come up with a total of 5.8mm in winnings, and do not have a # of hands, winrate, or pokertracker stats. You are also asking whether online poker will be legal in the future and whether you should quit your job. You have netted 6 million, you will be fine for money dude! It is bizarre.

[g-p]

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Diablo, I thought I had already done so. I think it has been established even by those doubting my number that I am a significantly winning player. Is it really necessary to verify (or even trust for that matter) the numbers that I have provided before being able to address the points that I discussed or to provide the advice that I sought?

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How can you not see that it is important to verify or have real numbers behind a claim that you are beating games for 15.7 PTBB!!?!?!

No one is debating whether you are a winning player, but how much you have won is pretty important when people are comparing styles. This is not complicated. There is a huge difference between winning 600$ an hour and 2,200$ an hour.

There are a bunch of good reasons to be skeptical of you. You have come up with a total of 5.8mm in winnings, and do not have a # of hands, winrate, or pokertracker stats. You are also asking whether online poker will be legal in the future and whether you should quit your job. You have netted 6 million, you will be fine for money dude! It is bizarre.

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jungle,

Who gives a [censored]?

-Everyone

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[PartyGirlUK]

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Samoleus,

you come up with an hourly rate and a number of hours per week that over 3 years translate to 5 million dollars 4 tabling. However, party have only had 10-20 NL for, what, 9 months? So even if your 2200 an hour was true it would only be pertinent over the past 9 monhts and thus your total winnings in this game would be WAY less 5 million. So what was the situation - prior to the party 10-20 NL there was another game that you could 4 table for 25 hours a week and make the same hourly rate?

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Dean,

Who gives a [censored]?
-James

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James,

I am a novice NL player. I play limit full time at the moment. I would like to mix in some NL. I want to make lots of money so that I can provide a comfortable life for my future wife and children, if I am blessed enough to have them. One of the two primary methods of learning NL I intend to employ (the other one being playing), is to read posts in this forum. I do not have the time/inclination to read every post so I will have to develop a filtering system. If a poster really had been as successful as Samoleus had claimed, over as many hands as he claimed, I would be faced with overwhelming evidence that he is an exceptional player who thinks about the game deeply and clearly. I would thus pay special attention to their posts. If this person had invented his winrate but I took it at face value and tried to emulate his way of thinking it could cost me a lot of money, which I don't want. It would also increase the chance that he is making other stuff up, such as the very hands he posts.

Dean

[IHateCats]

That's a good one.

[El Diablo]

sam: As someone else pointed out, if we are going to be discussing the merits of a certain style in a certain game, it makes a big difference whether that style has won you $500/hr or $2000/hr over a long period. That is why asking you for more information has merit. As to trying to verify any of it, I don't care, but just wanted to give you a chance to get all the information out there in case someone wanted to try and validate your claims. See the other thread for a response to your initial questions.