disappointment - and goodbye

[fsuplayer]

[ QUOTE ]
sam, the way to engage in meaningful discussion on these forums is to talk about specific hands. any thread where people are primarily discussing winrates or any of that other stuff are going to have fairly limited discourse.

you seem like a good guy and good player (I don't remember having played w/you however), and I hope you'll stick around and offer your comments/analysis on the hands people post as well as posting some interesting hands you've played.



[/ QUOTE ]

[IHateCats]

What turnip said.

You have a very interesting perspective on strategy and definitely have something to contribute and personally you've always been civil at the tables which is a bit of a rarity. And while many questioned your winnnings (including myself), most of the serious posters that are 10/20 regulars went out of their way not to call you a liar, simply that they hadn't seen evidence that you played enough at the Party 10/20 under Punketty/Samoleous to equal the appromately 1+ mil that was assumed based on other statements like playing predominately Party 10/20, mostly online cash games, etc. Obviously if all your tournament winnings came in last 9 months, you use other screennames playing different styles, there were substantial live winnings, most came in first 2 months of 10/20 opening, etc, that would doubtless alter people's comments. Of course it would alter their other advice as well.

Additionally on winrate, there are moderately sophticated tools for datamining online poker, Party especially so if nothing else you've learned something else about your opposition from your time spent on this.

[fsuplayer]

you post good.

------------------
fwiw-

i think that maybe the OP was trying to impress the "HSNL" guys by posting a number of $6million, and once he got called out, he didnt want to go back.

to all saying that kane, myself and others are being childish etc etc, do you realize how much money $6,000,000 is?

taking that out of poker without nearly the entire poker world knowing who you are is impossible.

like i said yesterday, guys like spirit rock and green plastic, etc prob havent made that kind of money, yet when this guy comes on and says he did, you all accept it blindly?

come on.


he is a very solid player and a very good guy it seems. but i played extensively with him over the last year at 10-20, but MOSTLY at 1k 6 max games. now tell me, what type of WR does this guy need to post before people can agree that its much much more likely that he overstated his winnings?



that being said, id love for him to stay and post strategy, it would be good for the forums.

[samoleus]

Sigh. KKF, Yeti, fsuplayer, fallenhero, etc - you obviously miss the point. Whether or not you believe me about my win-rate is completely immaterial. The point is that my post was intended to talk about LAG style, turning pro, etc. I never mentioned win-rate in it. Despite my writing out a thoughtful post as such, you guys choose to focus on my win-rate - which was posted only in response to a thread by KKF.

In my time lurking here, it is obvious to me that KKF, Yeti, and a lot of the other flamers on here are very insecure and jealous. Their responses do not really surprise me. I am surprised at you however fsu. Very immature and childish and not something I expected from you.

Of course, I have to accept the fact that some instrinsic immaturity on my part precludes me from brushing off you guys and the other insecure or jealous fools on here.

But ultimately, the point that you guys keep forgetting is that it doesn't matter whether you believe me or not. My win-rate should not have been the topic of discussion.

[LearnedfromTV]

They aren't jealous and insecure. They're just nineteen, have a lot of money, and think they're the [censored], like a lot of nineteen year olds.

[Yeti]

Heh.

What has KKF to be jealous of? He is one of the richest m'fers here.

I am not jealous, I just hate to see false info get posted, which happens quite a lot around here. Stuff that exagerrates how many people are making $xxx/hr, gives false ideas about variance etc, and what is and isn't possible. I feel I have a pretty grasp on things after having played and observed the games extensively for the last year.

Anyway, stick around and post. Or don't. I have a feeling whatever I say won't change your mind.

[IHateCats]

With respect Sam, winrate is highly relevent to some aspects of the discussion you were hoping to have. Your longterm winrate in higher level games has a lot to do with the viabiltity of quitting a secure/established job, particularly if you have grown up responsibilties which clearly you do. I have played quite a bit with you at the 10/20 Party and I don't have have slightest doubt that you can make a sum substantially in excess of the salary you mentioned playing poker full time for the next few years in various forms. What I've said in previous posts is that I haven't seen evidence of your 10/20 play yet that would equal the overall winrate you are talking about but I am aware that there might be reasons why that data I have might be inadequate. Whether the benefits of playing poker professionally besides the financial ones are worth it to leave the stability of the day job are ultimately up to you, I personally haven't found it to be so but I have an unusually flexible day job in the first place and only a fiance.

Winrate is also a relevant measure of the success of a style/strategy of poker under given circumstances, since in the end $ won is the ultimate measurement. So of course your winrate became a central topic of discussion since the Party 10/20 is the most well recorded platform that most HSNL posters play in. It's unfortunate that you don't have your own statistics because they would obviously be the most complete picture. Don't let that sidetrack you from what you hoped to gain from the forum.

Aside from that however, if you want to discuss strategy, I would suggest you do so in a slightly more concrete manner as turnip suggested, perhaps a string of hands ala some of bruiser's old HU posts since metagame considerations are very, very important to your strategy in each hand. Poker takes a thick skin, so you'd be well served by this forum if you can shrug off this initial reaction and focus on what it has to offer, there is a wealth of knowledge to be had though sometimes it's in realizing how wrong the majority opinion is.

[fsuplayer]

[ QUOTE ]
Very immature and childish and not something I expected from you.


[/ QUOTE ]


i really didnt want to get into this any more, but could you point out where i was being childish?





i am a logical person and a realist.

in this forum i kind of have the reputation of raining on people's parades as far as variance and winrates are concerned.

the reason i do this doesnt stem from jealousy or even immaturity, in fact, i think its quite the opposite.

i have played more hands at the 1k and 2k games since they started than most people on here.

i consider myself to be quite realistic when discussing winrates, variance, opponents etc.

so when a poster, new or old, good player or bad, starts talking about winrates and yearly expectations without having a clue as to how their winrate through 60k hands stacks up to their longterm WR in the game, i cant resist trying add some sense into the thread.


here's a great example. for a 100k stretch of hands, i ran at 6bb/100, which would put me on pace for around $1.2million for the year. sounds good to me.

except, that during the next 100k hands, i ran the worst i have ever ran, (or seen anyone else run) for an extended period. i was under 1bb/100.


so...when threads get started about how easy it is to make $1 million a year at the 2k games, or how you made $6m the last two years, i cant help but chime in with my thoughts and experiance in games i have played for the last year, day in and day out.


and regarding your original thread, you have lurked here long enough to know that winrate and hourly rate threads are always a complete mess, so if your intention as you say "talk about LAG style, turning pro, etc. " then you are smart enought to know that you should have never mentioned that number.

i have nothing against you and to tell you the truth, you seem like a real nice guy.

i hope you stay and post. i really do.


btw, although not to this extent, KKF was flamed alot for various things but people also knew he had a alot to say, and they listened. he eventually matured and is a very good poster for the most part.

you clearly already have the maturity and good stuff to say, so i hope you can look past this stuff and stick around.

-fsuplayer

[epdaws]

You know, Sam, maybe, just MAYBE, you should understand the following:

1) Your original post, while claiming modesty, immediately declared yourself as a poker deity. It is as if you subconciously WANTED to be asked, "Gee, how much DO you make?"

2) In a forum heavily charged with ego, that question is going to be asked immediately. It was.

3) Instead of re-directing the discussion to your difficulty in deciding whether to go pro, which was ostensibly the point all along, you spouted off with your earnings IMMEDIATELY. No hemming or hawing, no attempt to get back on subject. Almost like you couldn't wait to throw it out there.

4) Then, you act as if such an outlandish claim (of which I am making no value judgement) is going to be easily brushed aside so posters can tend to your other questions. That's naive at best, and dishonest at worst.

If you can't understand all of this, it's your own fault. I enjoyed reading your thoughts on LAG style, and I have no clue if what you are saying is true. But get off the ledge already.

[KingNeo]

Sam,

Everybody has already given their thoughts on the subject and I would feel left out if I do not give mine.

1) I really want to believe you, I think people who come on here and make false claims are just total clowns.

2) You are a quality player, I have played with you for about 10K hands.

3) If you truly made ~ $5.1 mil in cash games over the past 2 years you would be THE highest earning online poker player over that time span. Are you willing to say that you are THE biggest winner by only playing 4 tables 25 hrs/wk? You have repeated several times that the PP 10/20 game is your main game and it is easy to deduce that your repition of this fact means that this is the game that you have made the majority of your money.

4) You made $6 mil and you are worried about health insurance when you already stated your wife has coverage.

5) All of the top players here know about the exact LAG style you employ. While creative it is not revolutionary. Therefore we would have a very good idea of achieveable winrates.

6) You are a logical thinker (engineer) and your write well. Your posts are clear and concise. Nice work.

7) I/others play in the PP 10/20 game everyday. Very rarely do I ever see you. Futhermore there are websites that datamine all the 10/20 tables on PP 24/7. For an example please visit www.pokerdecision.com. Nowhere is there mention of your name as a big winner.

8) If you were the biggest winner in online cash games EVERYBODY would know about you and talk about you incessantly.

9) The winrate you mention is so absurd it is unrealistic.

10) You were a lurker here, the biggest winner in online poker of the past 2 years, and you don't know about PT and stats.

11) I think you assumed that all the top players here make approx $3 mil a year and you wanted to fit in. Therefore you stated that as your winrate as well so you could immediately fit in and be respected.

12) It is extremely rare taht the biggest winners in 25/50 and 50/100 make $3 mil a year.

13) You can offer information to the forum if you continue posting because it is clear you are a winning player. Don't leave.

14) I previously retired for 10 minutes, now I am back because threads like this.

15) That was long.