The official NETELLER thread. (First 40 days.) #1 of 2.

[momo_the_kid]

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Not to sound alarmist, as I think eventually we'll get our money, but say hypothetically we don't

either

A. Neteller at some point says "You're SOL, we're either belly up or simply not paying US balances, better luck next time."

or

B. Neteller just never does anything, 3 months pass, 6 months pass, 1 year passes, etc. Our balances just sit there in limbo

Obviously there would be LOTS of pissed off people, probably what a few million that got stuck, some LARGE amounts of money (6 figures+).

What would be our legal recourses? Like what would be step 1? I would definitely want to take legal action against them and many others would as well.

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we have to assume Neteller executives are rational human beings. It is clear that they can't get to our money without conducting some serious financial crimes. people here seem to think that all they have to do is just declare BK then they can take all US customers' money in the trust and buy mansions and private jets for themselves. this is simply not true.
If they can't take the money into their own pockets, there is really no incentive for them to continue to keep the money indefinately. Not to mention it will be really bad for their business elsewhere.

[UATrewqaz]

I agree. This is obviously a legimate business and a high profile situation. The company is not going to committ a bunch of terrible crimes with everyone eyeing them and what not, I was just wondering what the first step would be in the small case something did happen.

The government scares me alot more than Neteller at this point.

If the DOJ said "We'll this money is all illegal because it was in/out of poker and gambling sites, so it's our now" (they do this with drug money) then I see no way of fighting it. I seriously doubt the DOJ does this as it would cause a massive uproar as well.

People would still try to sue the government probably, but good luck with that.

I still believe we'll see the money (it might be 3-6 months though)

[JSchnett]

I will praise Anurag Dikshit and give sacrifice to the BBV gods if I see my money in my bank account in 3-6 months.

[andywend]

I am not terribly familiar with all the powers that the FBI has but I would like to know how its possible for the FBI to seize Neteller funds?

Can the FBI go into any bank in the world and seize funds belonging to U.S. citizens whenever they wish?

I can only see 2 possible scenarios as of now:

1. Neteller has VOLUNTARILY given the FBI control of their U.S. accounts (which means the money wasn't really seized).

2. All of the funds are currently in these so called trust accounts and all of these stories are completely untrue.

If there are any lawyers out here who are familiar with U.S. law, feel free to chime in at any time.

[UATrewqaz]

I'm no lawyer, but I think the government pretty much can seize your funds if they want, they just have to accuse you of some sort of wrong doing.

AKA if they suspect you are a drug dealer or financing terrorists or something, they can seize your funds.

If you get cleared of the charges you get your money back but that could take years.

It's kind of a guilty until proven innocent sorta deal, which sucks.

Basically I don't think the government can touch our individual funds without accusing us individually of wrong doing.

[andywend]

I definitely can see how the FBI could seize funds from within the U.S.

However, as far as I know, Neteller's trust accounts are NOT with U.S. financial institutions.

Can the FBI seize money whenever they wish from financial institutions NOT located in the U.S.?

Taking the extreme example of a drug dealer who has say a Swiss bank account? If U.S. authorities found out about this Swiss account, could they seize all the funds? Would the Swiss bank automatically comply with the FBI and send them all proceeds from that account?

[UATrewqaz]

They probably asked Neteller to freeze funds and Neteller voluntarily did and the whole "seized" line is what they are feeding their customters.

[momo_the_kid]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm no lawyer, but I think the government pretty much can seize your funds if they want, they just have to accuse you of some sort of wrong doing.

AKA if they suspect you are a drug dealer or financing terrorists or something, they can seize your funds.

If you get cleared of the charges you get your money back but that could take years.

It's kind of a guilty until proven innocent sorta deal, which sucks.

Basically I don't think the government can touch our individual funds without accusing us individually of wrong doing.

[/ QUOTE ]

so the question is is it legal for us to play online poker in US? i am confused... if it is legal, then no way the government can seize our money.

[zyqwert]

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I'm no lawyer, but I think the government pretty much can seize your funds if they want, they just have to accuse you of some sort of wrong doing.

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They accuse the funds of wrong doing and take them. As property, they have no rights, so you have to prove they were legitimate. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl...orfeiture.html

"over 80% of the people whose property is seized under civil law are never even charged with a crime according to one study of over 500 federal cases by the Pittsburgh Press."

As for the other question, can the government take money from a foreign bank account? Yes, they can thanks to the Patriot Act.

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Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master.
George Washington

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[Bobo Fett]

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I'm no lawyer, but I think the government pretty much can seize your funds if they want, they just have to accuse you of some sort of wrong doing.

[/ QUOTE ]

They accuse the funds of wrong doing and take them. As property, they have no rights, so you have to prove they were legitimate. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl...orfeiture.html

"over 80% of the people whose property is seized under civil law are never even charged with a crime according to one study of over 500 federal cases by the Pittsburgh Press."

As for the other question, can the government take money from a foreign bank account? Yes, they can thanks to the Patriot Act.

[ QUOTE ]

Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master.
George Washington

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If the bank is on foreign soil, how will they do this? They would need either the government or company in question to go along with this. I'm not saying whether they would or wouldn't, just suggesting they will need some cooperation to make this happen.