Why Raise with Suited Connectors? (NLHE)

[sayuncle]

I do it but not every time. I do it to vary play. If I only raise w/ premium hands, my opponents will figure that out.

[GiantBuddha]

To build a bigger pot so you can bet more when you make your hand and still get called.

[ATauO1]

I agree with the other posts- its done for many reasons-
It can also be done to set up bluffs- your going to bet no matter what hits the flop because you know everyone else is going to miss the flop roughly 70% of the time this is really true if you raise and cut the field down- if you hit nobody is going to know- if you don't hit, take a stab. if they fold you won- if they raise you fold< and show your hand and say "i was just kidding" they will think your a maniac and call you when you have a big hand.....

For the bluff to work make sure you know who you bluff and that you have a good image- don't bluff the calling station that NEVER folds-

[SplawnDarts]

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To build a bigger pot so you can bet more when you make your hand and still get called.

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Isn't this precisely CONTRARY to the concept of implied odds, though?

[alanbrown]

actually not. There's 2 points to make here

1) It's ok to sweeten the pot PF with drawing hands as long as the stacks are deep enough to give you the implied odds. Implied odds are less a function of pot size and more a function of the size of the stacks behind.

2) Raising with SCs is different from open raising with SCs. If you open raise you'll scare off action which isn't what you want. But if you raise with them then one of 2 things will happen. Either every one will come along for the ride in which case you've simply raised the stakes that your SCs are playing for while not affecting your potential return (as long as the stacks are big enough to pay off the right price if you hit your draw). Or people will drop off, leaving their dead money in the pot and increasing your winning chances that way. Also note that you've done a good job of disguising your hand in this scenario also because most people don't play SCs that way (for the reasons you've raised).

Of course, this is a reason to justify raising sometimes with SCs, not raising all the time with them. They make great limping hands also.

[SplawnDarts]

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actually not. There's 2 points to make here

1) It's ok to sweeten the pot PF with drawing hands as long as the stacks are deep enough to give you the implied odds. Implied odds are less a function of pot size and more a function of the size of the stacks behind.



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I'll agree your point 2) follows if 1) is true, but I'm not sure 1) is true. Usually when people talk implied odds, they're measured in terms of the ratio between what you have to put in the pot now vs. what you stand to win later. So in NL, it's usually initially talked about as the ratio between the BB and the stack sizes. However, if you raise, it would seem like the implied odds would now be the ratio of the total money you put in to stack size, which would be on the order of 1/4th of the previous ratio. I have a hard time seeing how your implied odds didn't just get FAR worse.

[alanbrown]

because betting on the later streets is a function of the pot size. You make the pot twice as big and the flop/turn/river betting all double also. Therefore your implied odds (which are the relationship between the amount you have to bet and the amount you expect to win if you hit) will stay the same.

[SplawnDarts]

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because betting on the later streets is a function of the pot size. You make the pot twice as big and the flop/turn/river betting all double also. Therefore your implied odds (which are the relationship between the amount you have to bet and the amount you expect to win if you hit) will stay the same.

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Fair enough, if the stacks were infinitely deep. However, in most structures it only take a few called pot-sized bets to get to the point where someone thinks about pushing. And obviously if someone pushes your implied odds are definitely worse if you raised preflop with a drawing hand.

[gotmarc]

If you raise with suited connectors people don't respect you when you raise with aces.

Your implied odds are based upon the flop. if you have 5 6 of hearts and the flop comes 2 4 8 you have eight outs for the straight and when you hit it people will make the ultimate mistake.

IF you're in early position you'll notice that a lot of the callers check to the raiser. Often you can steal the pot with a single bet. This even makes so called break even bets profitable.

When someone check raises you or if they bet realy big after the flop--you muck your cards because you're done with them.

This is more the "recipe" answer rather than theory, but you want to make sure you don't do it all the time. Normally you want to limp in with suited connectors, but I like to raise with them in late position on occasion. if i can show the hand down cheaply i will(assuming I don't hit anything)

Most importantly I don't think you can think of hands as being in a vacuum in NLH. IT all depedns on the stacks, the players, you position and many other things. You would definitly play suited connectors differently playing people in a home game who constantly underbet the pot then you would with Doyle Brunson--

[jeffnc]

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To build a bigger pot so you can bet more when you make your hand and still get called.

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Isn't this precisely CONTRARY to the concept of implied odds, though?

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No it's not precisely contraray to the concept of implied odds. (Actually it could be, I'll get to that in a second.)

Assuming stacks are deep, then all you're doing is raising the stakes. This is not a bad idea at all if
a) you play better than your opponents post flop
b) several opponents will stay with you when you raise.

Now what you've done is basically turned your $1/2 NL game into a $5/10 NL game (or whatever) where you would have limped with this hand, but just for this one hand.

It also has the added benefit of representing a big pair so your hand will be quite deceptive if you hit it.

But this idea breaks down if the stacks are too small. You wouldn't want to do this if everyone was sitting around with $60 in your $1/2 game, for example. You might do it for other reasons, but then you'd be right - you'd be wrecking your implied odds because there's not enough money there to get for those rare times you hit big and get paid off big.