Catholics vs. Hitler

[hashi92]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The basic premise of my post is

the church did terrible things.

[/ QUOTE ]
Your premise sucks because the church is not a person that can act.

[ QUOTE ]
Why isnt the catholic church demonized like hitler.

[/ QUOTE ]
The church can't act and those who did bad things in the past are not alive anymore. Those who did order bad things, are not looked upon well by history.

I understand what you're trying to do. You want to demonize an organization for the sins of those who once belonged to it a long, long time ago because of your anti-christian views. Most intelligent people here can see your silly attempts for what they are.

[/ QUOTE ]


its like mel gibson was a good director but now that he is a jew hater hes a bad director

[Stu Pidasso]

[ QUOTE ]

Imagine now that the Church taught abstinance as "plan A" AND to use birth control if you don't follow "plan A."

How REVOLUTIONARY. How REALISTIC. Think of the potential lives saved!

[/ QUOTE ]

Hi Kurto

Should we tell criminals that they should not burglarize peoples homes because its wrong and the home owner might kill them. Then in the next breath say that if they are going to burlarize homes anyways they should wear bullet proof vests?

The Catholic Church is telling people that it is a sin to have pre-martital sex and by doing so they might also get AIDS. They have no obligation to tell people to use condoms. Kurto, your rationale is bunk.

The real issue is wether the church should be teaching that permaritial sex and the use of birth control are sins.

Stu

[T_Money]

[ QUOTE ]
Im just trying to faciltate some contructive debate. I just dont understand why Group A is treated differently from Group B.

[/ QUOTE ]
I was actually just kidding in my first post when I said you sound like some 14 year old whining about having to go to church. In actuality (and considering the number 92 at the end of your name) it seems you probably are some 14 or 15 year old whining about having to go to church. And your premise is f'ing DUMB! Comparing a group of men who did evil things to people who are now part of an organization that has recognized the "wrongness" of the actions of its members hundreds of years ago, is nothing more than a very lame attempt to villify(sp?) the church. And frankly you fail miserably. No [censored] textbooks don't say "and oh yeah, the inquisition was very morally wrong." Nor do they say "Oh yeah, the holocaust should be very morally wrong to you." Why? because that's not the point of a textbook. It's just to inform the person of what happened.

[kurto]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The basic premise of my post is

the church did terrible things.

[/ QUOTE ]
Your premise sucks because the church is not a person that can act.

[ QUOTE ]
Why isnt the catholic church demonized like hitler.

[/ QUOTE ]
The church can't act and those who did bad things in the past are not alive anymore. Those who did order bad things, are not looked upon well by history.

I understand what you're trying to do. You want to demonize an organization for the sins of those who once belonged to it a long, long time ago because of your anti-christian views. Most intelligent people here can see your silly attempts for what they are.

[/ QUOTE ]

An organization is an entity and it can act.

[hashi92]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The basic premise of my post is

the church did terrible things.

[/ QUOTE ]
Your premise sucks because the church is not a person that can act.

[ QUOTE ]
Why isnt the catholic church demonized like hitler.

[/ QUOTE ]
The church can't act and those who did bad things in the past are not alive anymore. Those who did order bad things, are not looked upon well by history.

I understand what you're trying to do. You want to demonize an organization for the sins of those who once belonged to it a long, long time ago because of your anti-christian views. Most intelligent people here can see your silly attempts for what they are.

[/ QUOTE ]

By the way thats a whole century of people following Gods will incorrectly.

[kurto]

[ QUOTE ]
No it's not.



[/ QUOTE ]

Most of human history contradicts what you're saying but whatever. Arbitrary denial works well for you so go with it.

[ QUOTE ]
Hmmm, should have listened to that other Christian teaching of not committing adultery. Funny how listening to God can help protect you....

[/ QUOTE ]

God isn't protecting anyone. Notice- the wife didn't commit adultery. If her husband comitted adultery and got used protection properly... her life likely would still be spared.

[ QUOTE ]
If they don't want to listen to the church on subject A, why would they listen on subject B? Why is it the Church's responsibility to poo-poo sin?

[/ QUOTE ]

Honestly... I'm sorry I got involved. Didn't realize I was discussing with a person who uses "faith based logic."

Its just not interesting listening to people start with ludicrous illogical premises try to argue their point.

[BCPVP]

[ QUOTE ]
Im just trying to faciltate some contructive debate. I just dont understand why Group A is treated differently from Group B.

[/ QUOTE ]
Right, constructive debate. You started off comparing one man (Hitler) to an entire organization (the Catholic Church) based on actions of those who were part of the church hundreds of years ago. No one is defending the popes who authorized crusades and inquistions. If there were people defending them, you might have a legitimate point. But since there isn't, your argument is moot.

[BCPVP]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The basic premise of my post is

the church did terrible things.

[/ QUOTE ]
Your premise sucks because the church is not a person that can act.

[ QUOTE ]
Why isnt the catholic church demonized like hitler.

[/ QUOTE ]
The church can't act and those who did bad things in the past are not alive anymore. Those who did order bad things, are not looked upon well by history.

I understand what you're trying to do. You want to demonize an organization for the sins of those who once belonged to it a long, long time ago because of your anti-christian views. Most intelligent people here can see your silly attempts for what they are.

[/ QUOTE ]

An organization is an entity and it can act.

[/ QUOTE ]
No, it can't.

[luckyme]

[ QUOTE ]

An organization is an entity and it can act.

[/ QUOTE ]

The organization can even pay fines or compensation for the actions taken by the corporation.
Judge, what action does XY corp have to take?
It has to pay a fine and build two houses.
( More acts to compensate for prior acts).

luckyme

[kurto]

[ QUOTE ]
Hi Kurto

Should we tell criminals that they should not burglarize peoples homes because its wrong and the home owner might kill them. Then in the next breath say that if they are going to burlarize homes anyways they should wear bullet proof vests?

The Catholic Church is telling people that it is a sin to have pre-martital sex and by doing so they might also get AIDS. They have no obligation to tell people to use condoms. Kurto, your rationale is bunk.

The real issue is wether the church should be teaching that permaritial sex and the use of birth control are sins.



[/ QUOTE ]

2+2 really is the forum for bad analogies.

[ QUOTE ]
The Catholic Church is telling people that it is a sin to have pre-martital sex and by doing so they might also get AIDS. They have no obligation to tell people to use condoms. Kurto, your rationale is bunk.


[/ QUOTE ]

I'm saying if the Church wants to stop the spread of AIDS (which I'm pretty certain they've said as much)... if they were really interested in results they would teach people about condoms. "Hey, we think that you should practice abstinence. But listen, AIDS will kill you. If you aren't going to listen to us about the abstinence thing... please, at the very least, wear a condom."

There have been studies done on abstinence programs and the results are almost always the same. Abstinence does not work.

If the church is concerned about the spread of AIDS, and they are aware that abstinence WHILE A NOBLE GOAL IN THEIR EYES, doesn't work, then they should teach whatever else does work.

Let's use the married man example. Let's say you know that there's a decent chance a married man is going to cheat. Even if you tell him he shouldn't, there's a good chance he will. (remember, these are different cultures which may not have the same ideas about monogamy as Western cultures) But there's a decent chance that he IS concerned about AIDS and would likely use a condom if he knew about it and it was available. If he has an affair... there is a decent chance he gets AIDS and gives it to his wife.

Now if you want to help him and his wife... is the right thing to give him as much information about what can save him and his wife or only teach abstinence?