how bad was this?

[bender]

Party 10/20 6-max.

UTG I have no stats on but has been a little too loose so far i think. BB is 31/16/1.6

UTG raises, i 3-bet with 77. BB and UTG call.

Flop: KQ8 (2 hearts).
BB bets, UTG folds, i raise, BB calls.

Turn: Ace of spades.
He checks, I bet, he calls.

River is an offsuit brick.
Check, check.

Thanks

[ncray]

Fold the flop!!!! Pf 3 bet is fine if UTG is pretty loose on pf raises. What range are you putting BB (who is a bit loose pf, but still has reasonable tag stats and called 2 more bets pf) on??? You will never get BB to fold a pair in these games let alone a K or Q.

[bender]

That of course is what I was telling myself afterwards. At the time i thought there was a good enough chance he was on a draw to get to a showdown cheaply. I'm not conviced its all that terrible quite yet.

[sweetjazz]

The times you win when he is on a draw and doesn't improve plus the times he is on a stone bluff or smaller PP and doesn't outdraw plus the times you outdraw him by spiking a third seven don't come close to outweighing the majority of the time when you lose to a higher pair or get outdrawn (b/c just about any draw has lots of outs versus your vulnerable hand).

Is it a terrible play? Not in the sense that I have seen worse. But is it -EV? Definitely. And probably a pretty significant amount.

[bender]

The main reason why I did this was becuase I figured he is check raising a king or queen most of time and betting his strong draws or maybe a monster.

Here's maybe a more interesting question: Given that I raised the flop, should i have bet the turn, or just be done with it?

[sweetjazz]

It depends on your read on BB, but a lot of people with BBs stats are donking KTs or QJ or even A8s here (which includes the fact that they call preflop in the BB facing a 3-bet).

You need a strong read that the BB will bet out a lot of draws and check/call or check/raise most pairs because there are a lot more 1-pair or better hands than they are decent draws out there. When the turn brings an ace, most of his drawing "got there" (in the sense of outdrawing you as even AT and AJ now beat you). So check the turn and fold the river UI.

You don't say which two flop cards are hearts, but keep in mind that if villain is on a flush draw, he most likely has one of the A,K or Q of hearts -- enough to beat you already. (Or JhTh which has you crushed.)

In the best of scenarios, your aggressive play in this hand could have been marginally +EV. More likely, though, it was significantly -EV.

[bender]

sweetjazz,
thanks, and nicely put.

One of things i'm a big advocate of is not thinking I know how some random 10/20 player is going to play their hand. I'm not sure why i did here.

What you said about which 2 cards on the flop were the hearts is something I don't think about nearly often enough.