Can you Ace my quiz?

[pokerpudii]

I love this type of post. I just started playing 6 max and only have about 20,000 hands under my belt, so this stuff is great...

I have a clarification question. Sklansky says that the following hands (in order) are in Group 3 - 99, TJs, JQs, KJs, ATs and AQ. Does the question the OP asks mean that the four suited hands listed ahead of AQ are included in his "range?" What about the Group 2 hands of AJs and QKs?

In HU play, I would rather have AQ than any of the suited hands mentioned above (I think...)

The probability of having a Group 1, 2 or 3 hand (plus 88) is 7.39%. If you take out those "questionable" suited hands above, the probability is 5.58%. Not a huge difference, but just wondering...

In the 20,000 hands that I have played at 200 6 max, I see very few good players with a PFR of 7%. In fact, only 8 out of the 115 players with at least 200 hands against me have a PFR this low (and only 2 of those are "winners."

I am really trying to learn this game and figure out why I should do something, but I need to understand the question completely to have it really sink in.

Thanks for your help.

[Paul Thomson]

[ QUOTE ]
I love this type of post. I just started playing 6 max and only have about 20,000 hands under my belt, so this stuff is great...

I have a clarification question. Sklansky says that the following hands (in order) are in Group 3 - 99, TJs, JQs, KJs, ATs and AQ. Does the question the OP asks mean that the four suited hands listed ahead of AQ are included in his "range?" What about the Group 2 hands of AJs and QKs?

In HU play, I would rather have AQ than any of the suited hands mentioned above (I think...)

The probability of having a Group 1, 2 or 3 hand (plus 88) is 7.39%. If you take out those "questionable" suited hands above, the probability is 5.58%. Not a huge difference, but just wondering...

In the 20,000 hands that I have played at 200 6 max, I see very few good players with a PFR of 7%. In fact, only 8 out of the 115 players with at least 200 hands against me have a PFR this low (and only 2 of those are "winners."

I am really trying to learn this game and figure out why I should do something, but I need to understand the question completely to have it really sink in.

Thanks for your help.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think you're asking yourself the right questions or organizing your thoughts with the correct concepts.

[pokerpudii]

I am trying, but I am not as smart as most...

Just trying to clarify which hands are in his "range" for now...

[PBJaxx]

Grunch. I must have missed this, so I will put my responses, then read through it all, because I think it is a good quiz.

1. Fold>Raise>Call
2. Call>Fold>Raise
3. Raise>Call>Fold
4. Raise>Fold>Call

Now I'll read through to find out how much of a pre-flop donk I am. BTW, this post is making think I have to assign pre-flop ranges much more often than I do!

[sam h]

Fold
Call
Reraise
Fold or Reraise

[PBJaxx]

Okay,

I just kind of skimmed through this after posting my answers. There seems to be a fair amount of disagreement on number 4. I am a firm believer that Raise>Fold>Call here. I saw someone say "easy 5/10 rule." First of all, you should read dbitel's recent post on implied odds necessary for set value. Most importantly, though, your opponents raising range is the first thing you need to consider before you even think about applying a 5/10, 3/7 rule, etc.

Pokey, I definitely understand your concern with position. Position is king in NL, but I think you are making some incorrect assumptions here. With villain number two, there should be a very large disconnect between villains raising range, and his 3-bet calling range. In general, we are not building a pot oop, we are winning a pot without having to play a speculative hand oop.

Another assumption you made is that we will cbet 100% of the time. I really don't want to start this conversation up again, but when I 3-bet with marginal holdings and get called by a smart player, I am not c-betting very often, TBH. That aspect of post-flop play dramatically effects my pre-flop play compared to a player that cbets ~100% of the time.

Anyways, very good thread.

[sam h]

[ QUOTE ]
Okay,

I just kind of skimmed through this after posting my answers. There seems to be a fair amount of disagreement on number 4. I am a firm believer that Raise>Fold>Call here. I saw someone say "easy 5/10 rule." First of all, you should read dbitel's recent post on implied odds necessary for set value. Most importantly, though, your opponents raising range is the first thing you need to consider before you even think about applying a 5/10, 3/7 rule, etc.

Pokey, I definitely understand your concern with position. Position is king in NL, but I think you are making some incorrect assumptions here. With villain number two, there should be a very large disconnect between villains raising range, and his 3-bet calling range. In general, we are not building a pot oop, we are winning a pot without having to play a speculative hand oop.

Another assumption you made is that we will cbet 100% of the time. I really don't want to start this conversation up again, but when I 3-bet with marginal holdings and get called by a smart player, I am not c-betting very often, TBH. That aspect of post-flop play dramatically effects my pre-flop play compared to a player that cbets ~100% of the time.

Anyways, very good thread.

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly. Against many opponents with this PFR profile, you will make money reraising here almost automatically. Even if you check-fold all flops that don't contain 3s or aren't 3 really low cards, you should be in good shape as long as he folds enough preflop.

[joseki]

Honestly, I call w/ 33 because it can't be that big of a mistake and flopping sets is so damn fun. Also, I'm pretty sure I'm due for a set.

[pokerpudii]

I am just learning, but help me out here on hand 1… Just trying to do the math first then I will work on the other part…

OP says range is AQ+ and 88+. I am assuming we are using Sklansky’s Groups so that includes the following hands and the percentage of time he has them if you have an AQ (have to reduce the probability of AA etc…)

Group 1

AA – 4.08%
KK – 8.16%
QQ – 4.08%
JJ – 8.16%
AKs – 3.77%

Group 2

TT – 8.16%
AQs – 2.51%
AJs – 3.77%
KQs – 3.77%
AK – 11.30%

Group 3

99 – 8.16%
TJs – 5.44%
JQs – 3.77%
JKs – 5.44%
ATs – 3.77%
AQ – 7.54%

Group 4

88 – 8.16%

I may have made some errors on the math, but I think they are close enough.

Which hands “dominate” us? AA, KK, QQ, AKs, AK which are 31.39% of the time.

Which hands are coin flips? JJ, TT, AQs, AQ, 99, 88 which are 42.69% of the time.

Which hands are we ahead? AJs, KQs, TJs, JQs, JKs, ATs which are 25.96% of the time.

Being out of position, seems to me this would be a fold as most of you have already stated.
Please tell me if the math portion of this is relatively correct…