Odd betting structure - what would you do?

[sayuncle]

Searched around and found no board that applied so I figured I'd throw it here. Going to a game tonight that is, as far as i can tell, a combo of limit/no-limit. $100 buy in. Blinds at $1/$2. Raise $5 max. That is, you can't put all your money in the pot.

ETA: Should be more clear: raise is up to $5. You can raise $1, $2, etc.

I usually play NL. How would you play this game?

[SvensHorse]

uhm so 1-5$ spreadlimit ? just bet the max every time and play it like limit [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[AKQJ10]

That's the standard advice for spread-limit. Essentially it's going to play much more like fixed-limit than NL, so OP will want to make sure his limit game is solid.

I'm not sure "bet the max every time" is really optimal, though. I think like in NL you should have different bet/raise sizes to accomplish different goals and only mix them up as needed to disguise your motives. If a $2 raise is usually a pot-sweetener, but occasionally comes when you'd like to think the field, and a $5 raise is usually to thin the field but occasionally a pot-sweetener, I think you'll do better. Just watch how the table reacts to different raise sizes, and don't kill your action if you don't intend to.

That said, it would be fine to just pick a number between 3 and 5 and always size your bet/raise accordingly.

(Incidentally, spread games like $1-3 and $1-5 are still spread occasionally in casinos -- more for stud than for HE, but occasionally for HE. Did I hear the Excalibur got rid of the $1-3 and $2-6?)

[sayuncle]

well, in that case, I'll be reading up on how to play limit.

thanks!

[SplawnDarts]

I would advise that with a spread that's small relative to the blinds like that, you always bet and raise the max. While there are psychological reasons to bet other amounts, I think there's never a technical reason to do so. So ABC poker here is to study your limit game and bet the max. If you want to feel like you're making use of the spread limit, bet 4 instead of 5 on the end randomly one time in 2 or one time in 3. The pot will already be so big that the odds you're laying are effectivly the same, but you'll find your opponents will ascribe meaning to your different bet sizes and use it to make decisions. Since there is no meaning, those decisions will often be mistakes.

There is one BIG difference between spread limit and no limit though: the bet size does not double on the turn. That means that two classic tactics of limit, namely the turn check-raise and buying a free card, don't work. I reccomend you never checkraise unless you improve your hand on the turn or river. If you flopped the goods, lead it out no matter how big & drawproof it is.

The spread limit strucutre also means that the same players will take a river card more frequently than they would in standard limit, which means if you fail to thin the field there will be more suckouts. On the other hand, your initial raise is to 7 rather than 4, so you CAN thin the field in an almost NL way before the flop sometimes if the limpers haven't already given eachother pot odds. Those two effects can more or less cancel eachother out.

One other thing to do is watch when your opponents make use of the spread limit (ie. bet or raise less than 5). Oftentimes, a donk's choice of bet size will be directly proportional to how much they like their hand. This springs out of the "This is a $N hand" line of flawed thinking, and is most common on the flop. If you find someone doing this, it's a goldmine because it effectivly reveals the content of their hole. I find that bluff-raising against players who have just bet the bottom of the spread is a very effective tactic for psychological reasons (assuming there are no other players in the pot to get in the way). Since villian has already decided that their middle pair or whatever is a $2 hand, raising to $7 usually triggers an insta-fold.

[trickyAAA]

good advice in the last paragraph of splawndarts post. i played a lot of spread limit stud and this is very useful. Also, you may be able to steal a lot with $5 bet pre-flop.

[MelloAceCV]

Yes, Excalibur has done away with all thier spread games. Strictly 1-3 NL, 2-4 LHE, and occasionally a 3-6 LHE.

[CaryDarling]

I used to play a lot of Spread Limit at "Castle Ex," and I was one of those big proponents of always betting the max.
We brought it up at our discussion meeting one Wednesday, and Barry Tanenbaum made some very interesting points...to sum it up...he said "why throw away other tools in your toolbox."

[SplawnDarts]

[ QUOTE ]
I used to play a lot of Spread Limit at "Castle Ex," and I was one of those big proponents of always betting the max.
We brought it up at our discussion meeting one Wednesday, and Barry Tanenbaum made some very interesting points...to sum it up...he said "why throw away other tools in your toolbox."

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not saying that you should just "throw away" the other tools, but I've yet to see many if any scenarios where they acomplish much. Bluffing for less than the max tends to cause unwanted calls, and value betting less than the max tends to cost you value.

If you've got a hammer, a putty knife, a jointer's plane and a corkscrew, and the job at hand is always a nail, there's no shame in repeatedly using the hammer.

[Cazz]

Another adjustmnet for a passive-LL spread game
is that pocket pairs go way up in value.

Often you can see the flop for $2 w/ a hand like
66 and then on the flop put in the first raise to $10
if you hit your set. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Versus the equivalent 2/4 structured game, big cards
are slightly better and suited connectors are slightly
worse. Position is also a little more important.

Lots of LL players rarely raise PF, so if they raise
to $7, you can safely fold almost everything.
However, if you are against several people that like
to limp in from EP w/ junk you should mix in
some raises to punish them.

I usually always bet/raise $5. The only expection is
an occasionally $3 "pop sweetener" raise on the button
PF. I usually only do this on multiway pots when
I have a good multiway hand that doesn't figure to
be the best hand. This gives away some information,
so I try to do this rarely. I also figure that if I'm
calling on the button vs. 5 limpers, the better players
can already narrow my hand down. This works best in a
game where everyone will check to the raiser on the flop
so you can take a free card.

SplawnDarts is correct about the pure "free card play" not
applying. But sometimes you can have a multiway "raise for
value" that can also have the benefit of getting you a
free card.
Example: you have Axs on the button. The flop brings
2 of your suit. One of the blind bets and there are
2 callers. If you think that a raise will be called
by at least 2 of the 3 and will not be reraised, you
should raise for value (you will hit the flush about 1 in
every 3 times). If they all call and the turn is a blank
you can usually check behind.