seif rips gold

[Chomp]

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The American justice system is the most inequitous, unfair and corrupt of it's kind wnywhere in the developed world. In fact, amongst 1st world countries, it without a shadow of a doubt the WORST justice system. And it's not even close.

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This is an absurd claim. Italy, for instance, has significant levels of judicial corruption and more importantly perceived corruption. While I agree that Americans tend to just assume they have the best institutions, you weaken your credibility by overstating your case so strongly.

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You are absolutly correct that Italy has a shockingly corrupt political system. Absolutely no doubt. Without doubt amongst the most corrupt and dysfunctional political system in the 1st world.

But the political system is not the same thing as the justice system, which in Italy, is perfectly average in terms of it's "fairness". The insanity of the political syatem does not, for the most part, spill over into the mainsatream justice system.

So I totally refute that I overstated my argument at all: America has by far the most unfair justice system of any 1st world country.

If Italy is the best you can come up with to counter that opinion, then your argument is lost.

[NoSoup4U]

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If Italy is the best you can come up with to counter that opinion, then your argument is lost.

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I see no future in a protracted debate with you on this topic, but I think you are confused. The most objective measure of corruption is probably Transparency International's CPI, which assigns Italy a dismal score. For specific numbers related to the judiciary, the best source is probably Global Integrity who assign Italy's judiciary a score of 69, which is absolutely terrible. Accusations and even convictions relating to judicial bribery remain fairly common. Recently, a former defense minister was convicted of bribing multiple judges in Rome.

[NCAces]

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If Italy is the best you can come up with to counter that opinion, then your argument is lost.

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I see no future in a protracted debate with you on this topic, but I think you are confused. The most objective measure of corruption is probably Transparency International's CPI, which assigns Italy a dismal score. For specific numbers related to the judiciary, the best source is probably Global Integrity who assign Italy's judiciary a score of 69, which is absolutely terrible. Accusations and even convictions relating to judicial bribery remain fairly common. Recently, a former defense minister was convicted of bribing multiple judges in Rome.

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nh, sir!

Hey, Chomp ... totally pawned on this one!

[Martin Aigner]

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If Italy is the best you can come up with to counter that opinion, then your argument is lost.


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I see no future in a protracted debate with you on this topic, but I think you are confused. The most objective measure of corruption is probably Transparency International's CPI, which assigns Italy a dismal score. For specific numbers related to the judiciary, the best source is probably Global Integrity who assign Italy's judiciary a score of 69, which is absolutely terrible. Accusations and even convictions relating to judicial bribery remain fairly common. Recently, a former defense minister was convicted of bribing multiple judges in Rome.


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Hm, maybe my english is too weak to fully understand that site, but give me the choice and I´ll take a trial in a german court over an american any day, although according to that site Germany scores only 79 vs USA 94.

Also from
The same site
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39 Can citizens access the judicial system?
- 39a: In practice, citizens earning the median yearly income can afford to bring a legal suit.
Score: often/0.75
Comments: According to the U.S. Census, median household income was $42,228 in 2001. It is hard to say how much citizens with that income could afford, but even postulating that they could afford to spend roughly one-tenth of that income, or $4,223, we need to acknowledge that legal fees vary greatly, depending on the quality of legal services and on the amount of legal work involved. Moreover, some lawyers agree to work on a contingency basis such that their fees are contingent on winning the suit. Some law firms offer pro bono services to indigent citizens, and some nonprofit organizations offer legal services at a reduced rate or free of charge.
References: http://www.census.gov/prod/2002pubs/p60-218.pdf

- 39b: In practice, a typical small retail business can afford to bring a legal suit.
Score: rarely/0.25
Comments: Legal fees vary greatly, depending on the quality of legal services and the amount of legal work involved, but are generally prohibitive for a typical small business. Pro bono and nonprofit legal assistance, moreover, is usually available for individuals and not businesses.
References:


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Wouldn´t it be one of the basic principals of fair juristication be that ANYBODY has in practice the possibility to go to (and win at) court?

[absoludicrous]

JG is a pile of steaming dog [censored].

[pokergrader]

Can we shift this back to JG? I was hoping some of the high stakes people would chime in how be plays at the cash games in commerce.

[NCAces]

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Can we shift this back to JG? I was hoping some of the high stakes people would chime in how be plays at the cash games in commerce.

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Sorry for the thread jack.

[grdred944]

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But the political system is not the same thing as the justice system, which in Italy, is perfectly average in terms of it's "fairness". The insanity of the political syatem does not, for the most part, spill over into the mainsatream justice system.


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In the overzealousness to perpetuate your anti-American rant you tripped over yourself here. The problem with Italy is that the judicial side of the house is inbred with the political side. Nothing happens in the Italian courts without the consideration and blessing of the politicos.

Yes, every so-called developed nation has instances of this (Duke lacrosse team case in the US right now for example) but to be so vocal about the US system and brush off a reasoned post about a country that has a centuries-old tradition of judicial corruption, only brings into question your real motivation.