What % of major tourney players are backed by sheets/bax?

[shaniac]

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I personally understand how backing someone can be a profitable venture.

I mean for a good player, I understand the deal is typically the backer puts up 100% of the cash and the profits are split.

I think the level of play has been elevated significantly of the "average" player over the last 2 years that the edges that a good/great player can have over the field has been diminshed significantly.

Tell me does Sheets/Bax make big money doing this?

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I don't know how much money anyone makes, but why would you think it's -EV to back many +EV players in tournaments, getting back half their profits with makeup? If the backer has a big enough bankroll to reach the longterm, it's a freeroll, or at least that's how it's commonly regarded.

[The Camel]

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If you watched the Habib/Tuan Le v Maxfield final three at the WPT championship in 2005, you saw team poker in action. It wasn't very edifying to watch.

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This actually hints at the more subtle and pervasive issue, which is that friends will commonly feel compelled to softplay each other or help the other one out. I see signs of it and hear stories that indicate it goes on a lot. Sometimes, the sotfplaying is devoid of major financial interest (like maybe a few % traded). People are basically idiots, and I think a lot of players think it's somehow just the right thing to do and softplay each other without even trying to improve their overall EV. Absent a true plan, they usually just damage their own equity in the tournament, but it's still [censored] up and I wish people wouldn't do it.

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From what I understand it was more than friends soft playing.

I believe Habib only owned 50% of himself, but also owned 50% of Tuan Le.

[El Diablo]

shane,

"God damnit El Diablo, now everytime some schmuck donks off his chips to me in a tournament, I'm going to wonder if he was secretly employed by my backers to chip dump to me. SHEEEEEEESH. Ignorance was bliss."

I think you're joking here, but I would actually be surprised if this was NOT going on w/ some backers.

[shaniac]

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I believe Habib only owned 50% of himself, but also owned 50% of Tuan Le.

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I think the percentages were different (pretty sure, at the very least, that Hassan owned a smaller piece of Tuan than 50%).

My point was that it doesn't even take heavy financial interest (their arrangement was well known and their appearance together at the final table quite flukey) to make softplaying a problem.

Also, is this THE Camel?

[El Diablo]

f,

"I mean for a good player, I understand the deal is typically the backer puts up 100% of the cash and the profits are split."

In most deals, the tourney buyins (accruing over time) are paid back first ("makeup") before splitting the winnings.

[shaniac]

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shane,

"God damnit El Diablo, now everytime some schmuck donks off his chips to me in a tournament, I'm going to wonder if he was secretly employed by my backers to chip dump to me. SHEEEEEEESH. Ignorance was bliss."

I think you're joking here, but I would actually be surprised if this was NOT going on w/ some backers.

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I have no idea what the EV of putting players in specifically to dump to other players they may or may not encounter is, but even assuming it's huge, it still seem like way too much of a risk/hassle to pull off from a backers perspective.

I was only half-joking, I guess, because I hadn't really considered that this type of cheating exists, and now I probably will.

[pokulator]

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There is no incentive to help members of your "team" out whatseoever, backer or sponsor.

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i guess that just depends on the team's gameplan. i'm not saying that it does happen, just that it is possible...

[shaniac]

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There is no incentive to help members of your "team" out whatseoever, backer or sponsor.

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i guess that just depends on the team's gameplan. i'm not saying that it does happen, just that it is possible...

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Are you aware of any team that employs a "gameplan?" I've never heard it hinted at, but I think if you have, it's worthy of mention in this thread.

It seems like people are inventing/imagining a problem and then saying "isn't this a big problem?" I think you and El D are fantasizing a little bit, or, maybe, I'm out of touch with poker culture or with the clandestine plans of whatever crooked backers y'all know.

[El Diablo]

shane,

I doubt it would be +EV to put players in specifically to dump chips. However, I think it would very +EV to have players in who might do some things differently against certain other players in various spots.

For a very simplified scenario, think of a big satellite. Someone w/ a lot of horses in that can easily help pull a few extra guys along.

This of course extends to many more complex tourney situations.

Given the level of cheating that occurs in poker, I would be shocked if this sort of stuff is not going on already.

[The Camel]

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I believe Habib only owned 50% of himself, but also owned 50% of Tuan Le.

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I think the percentages were different (pretty sure, at the very least, that Hassan owned a smaller piece of Tuan than 50%).

My point was that it doesn't even take heavy financial interest (their arrangement was well known and their appearance together at the final table quite flukey) to make softplaying a problem.

Also, is this THE Camel?

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The Camel from 'Stars, yes.