Was Hachem being unethical?

[Beavis68]

Sorry if this has been covered.

What if you were the guy already all-in, and this jackass was getting people to fold behind, and you were sitting there with AA. He chases people out of the pot when you have a chance to 4x up. This is completely unethical and probably against the rules.

[kantseeme]

I dont think that that was unethical...because lets be honest, those words really mean nothing and have no value. I think the essential take away is that you if have an all in and then another one in front of you with pk QQ, then the "correct" move is to fold regardless of what anyone says. Additionally, Haschem seems like such a class act from everything I have seen about him that I don't think he would be one that I would dub "unethical". Just my 2+2 cents....

kant

[mikechops]

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I thought that he verbally trapped Dannerman in the last hand of the main event. Taking advantage of Dannerman's naivity and good nature. It's Hachem style of play and his sense of etiquette or lack of it. I'm with you, I'd just rather play cards and find that bullsh*t offensive. It brings up the question "when does gamesmanship cross the line" Should you be allowed to say anything to your oppenents in the middle of a hand? Then again, how can you legislate it?

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The difference between the two cases is that with Dannerman, he's heads up and it's a zero-sum game. Everything Hachem does is trying to get more of Dannerman's chips and they both know this.

Reading echeeze's original post it seems to Hachem as near as told a 3rd player what he had, in order to get him to fold. I'm not sure it was smart - He saved himself another 2 outs but he could have made another $T100k - but it does seem to me to be unethical. As someone pointed out what if Pescatori had AA. His equity has been decreased by somebody else disclosing their hand.

Maybe a "no coffee-housing" rule should be in effect, whilst there are more than 2 players in a pot. After that, anything goes.

[MikeSmith]

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At the final table of Bally's wsop circuit event when there were 10 players left and we were waiting for 1 more to drop to end the day Hachem did something that I disagree with. It isn't against the rules but in my opinion it could be considered unethical by many.

On the last hand of the day with the blinds at 2k-4k with a 500 ante Max Pescatori moves all in in the hijack for 22,500 chips. Joe Hachem is next to act and announces all in. I don't know his exact chip count but I think it was over 150,000. Lee Watkinson is next to act and goes into the tank. He clearly has a good hand and is deciding whether he wants to put the tournament on the line as it will be all in for him. After some time Hachem turns to Watkinson and says "I know what you have."
Watkinson replies "You know what I have? OK tell me what I have."
Hachem says "There are other players behind you I can't say yet but before the cards are turned over I'll tell you what you have."
Watkinson keeps deliberating. Hachem is figiting and to me it was clear he wanted Watkinson not only to fold but was making it clear he had Watkinson beat and that he would be making a mistake to call. After some more time Hachem says to Watkinson "You should have folded a long time ago."

Watkinson folds and Minh Ly moves in his approximately 50k in the small blind immediately. I fold the big blind and the hands are turned up with Pescatori holding A4o, Hachem KK, and Minh Ly JJ. Watkinson claims to have folded QQ and Hachem says something like "Of course I knew you had QQ."

Regardless of whether Watkinson would have called I'm sure he was strongly influenced by Hachem to fold. After the hand Hachem told me he didn't want Watkinson to call. I was shocked and told him he of course wanted watkinson to call. He claims he was worried about going against so many hands and having to dodge alot of cards.

An unfortunate part of the situation is that Minh Ly isn't exaclty a master of the english language and couldn't have understood the full implications of what Hachem was saying. Ly is one of the best players in the world and I'm almost positive he would have folded if he could have completely understood what Hachem was saying.

Clearly Harrah's and the WSOP doesn't think Hachem did anything wrong and no one else seemed to think so either.

As far as I can tell Hachem is a very nice and personable guy and a good NL tournament player. He clearly didn't think he was doing anything wrong or unethical at the time.

What do you guys think?

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Not unethical,ly probably thought his push could have been with AK after all he was trying to get players out.

[Vincent Lepore]

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Even assuming your interpretation is correct and what Hachem did was not unethical.

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If you explained the situation as it happened Hachem was clearly in violation of the rules. One person per hand is the rule. In a tournament every player that is in the tournament at the time has an interest in the outcome of each and every hand. In the case that you describe one player potentially busting out makes this a critical situation. Hachem should have been penalized.

Vince

[lozen]

Broke no rules and did nothing unethical

[MeanGreenTT]

Easy, non-issue.

[Beavis68]

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Easy, non-issue.

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This is why I hate poker players.

[morello]

For those of you who say this was a non-issue..

If the Players involved had been Barry Greenstein and his son, would you feel any differently? How about two players who have a percentage of each other in the tournament?

[MeanGreenTT]

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Easy, non-issue.

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This is why I hate poker players.

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LOL

Then "hood up" and don't let a peep escape the lips...

Please explain exactly what he did that was unethical