Do you agree with the following statement?

[benjdm]

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So what is your theory on the rise of Christianity and the growth of the Christian church?

[/ QUOTE ]
That there have been several billion people on the planet who are no more skeptical than you are. I tried pointing out the roots of Jediism to the believers here; they didn't deconvert either.

[MidGe]

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So your theory is that Jesus existed and the church founders truly believed he was resurrected three days after his death. Do you believe they were mistaken? If so, how do you explain the 500 people Jesus appeared to at one time? If this didn't happen, then the church founders were lying. What would be their motivation for lying?

[/ QUOTE ]

Interesting that when there are 500+ witnesses, and all the people that those witnesses know, another 20 to 100 times that, the only record is in the bible! Seems like a scam to me!

[David Sklansky]

"The other thing that [censored] me off was Sklansky's (of all people) support of his absurd position."

You are misconstruing me. I was simply willing to STIPULATE to a massive conspiracy being the only explanation for bible stories as an alternative to them actually being true. Because such a conspiracy is stills immeasurably more likely than the sun really standing still.

[jogsxyz]

[ QUOTE ]
Here is what we know:

1. There are over 300 prophesies in the Old Testament concerning the Messiah which were fulfilled by Jesus. Here are some of them:

Genesis 22:18 says the Messiah would be the seed of Abraham.

Genesis 21:12 says the Messiah would be born through the lineage of Isaac.

Numbers 24:17 says He would come from the lineage of Jacob.

Genesis 49:10 and Micah 5:2 say He would come from the tribe of Judah.

Micah 5:2 also says He would come from Bethlehem, which was fulfilled when Jesus was born there.

Isaiah 11:1 says He would come from the lineage of Jesse.

Jeremiah 23:5 says He would come from the lineage of David.



[/ QUOTE ]

Many do not recognize Jesus as the messiah. The Jews and Muslims consider Jesus just a prophet.

[Dane S]

Ummm, history itself is a colossal fudging of data. Language is a colossal fudging of data. What makes you thinks a few books wouldn't get fudged together and then taken too seriously at some points along the way?

Read Joseph Campbell's The Hero With A Thousand Faces. The stories of the Bible are not unique to the Bible.

[Prodigy54321]

[ QUOTE ]
So your theory is that Jesus existed and the church founders truly believed he was resurrected three days after his death. Do you believe they were mistaken? If so, how do you explain the 500 people Jesus appeared to at one time? If this didn't happen, then the church founders were lying. What would be their motivation for lying? They didn't gain power or money from it, they died because of it, and unlike the beliefs of radical Islamic terrorists there, would have been no reward waiting for them in heaven. So why do it?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know..I wasn't there

if you would like to provide us with the testimonies of the 500 individuals..I would love to look over them...

I don't know if jesus actually appeared to anyone...and I'm not taking the bible at its word...

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If this didn't happen, then the church founders were lying.

[/ QUOTE ]

maybe the guy who said that it happened was lying...or maybe he heard that it happened and believed that it did.

500+ people didn't have to lie for it to get into the bible.

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and unlike the beliefs of radical Islamic terrorists there, would have been no reward waiting for them in heaven. So why do it?

[/ QUOTE ]

so you only follow your religion to get a reward?

[jogsxyz]

[ QUOTE ]
So your theory is that Jesus existed and the church founders truly believed he was resurrected three days after his death. Do you believe they were mistaken? If so, how do you explain the 500 people Jesus appeared to at one time? If this didn't happen, then the church founders were lying. What would be their motivation for lying? They didn't gain power or money from it, they died because of it, and unlike the beliefs of radical Islamic terrorists there, would have been no reward waiting for them in heaven. So why do it?

[/ QUOTE ]

500 isn't very many. Google Elvis sightings. There are over 440,000 entries.

I believe Jesus was an actual person.
I believe 500 people thought they sighted Jesus.
But had Jesus died? Can we trust the doctors of that time.
Was that really Jesus? There weren't photos in those times. How would people know if it were really Jesus?
I still don't believe Jesus was white.

[txag007]

[ QUOTE ]
500+ people didn't have to lie for it to get into the bible.


[/ QUOTE ]
How do you explain the founding of the Church and the massive growth of Christianity within the first few decades after Jesus' death?

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so you only follow your religion to get a reward?

[/ QUOTE ]
You missed my point. That was in response to those who say that christianity isn't the only religion with martyrs. Look at the persecution and deaths of the church founders. If they were making it up, they would have known their suffering was for nothing. Why would they have put themselves through that?

[Lestat]

<font color="blue">Look at the persecution and deaths of the church founders. If they were making it up, they would have known their suffering was for nothing. Why would they have put themselves through that? </font>

There have been many pursuasive people throughout history. In the last 40 years alone you have Manson, Jones, LaRouche, and many more. Their followers also were willing to die for them. And many did just that, or were persecuted.

Who knows why Christianity flourished? But the fact that it did, lends nothing to your claim. There are other religions both before and after Christianity, that have also persisted until this day. Many have huge followings.

The question can easily be turned around.. If Christianity were the one true religion and Jesus really did appear after death, why wouldn't EVERYONE believe it and be Christian! A guy walking around 3 days after he was dead, would be a pretty powerful sign to me. Who in their right mind would say, "That doesn't impress us... We're sticking with Judaism"?

[txag007]

Crucifixion was a common method of execution in Palestine. How familiar are you with the crucifixion process?

If Jesus was not dead from crucixion, nor from the puncturing of his side with a spear, then the wrapping of His dead body in spices according to the custom of Jewish burial would have killed him. How familiar are you with this process?

If you think that the multitude only thought they saw Jesus alive, who was it that they did see? Also, what about the times Jesus appeared to the apostles and church founders following His resurrection? Were they also mistaken? And if so, who was it that they did see? Or were they the ones behind it all? And if so, why die for something they would have known is false?