Bots in PartyPoker's 6-max Limit games?

[Newtown]

Can we please get this thread split in two. The intention was to discuss the bot situation on Party whereas the topic now seems to have changed to the merits of cheating/botting in general.

[Phil153]

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Can we please get this thread split in two. The intention was to discuss the bot situation on Party whereas the topic now seems to have changed to the merits of cheating/botting in general.

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I agree. Ray Bornert is a nutcase who's using this as a platform to promote his products and insane worldview. He lost his marbles some time ago and now gets high on the thought of his bot network taking over the online world. He's quite a sick individual, and I don't know why he should be allowed here, promoting his site and spreading a very one sided perspective of online poker. He has no interest in discussion, as he's made his mind up about what's ethical, what's possible, and what sites should and will eventually do (openly allow collusion and bots). Even though those beliefs and hopes have no grounding in reality.

His frustration that things aren't the way he wants proves most of his assertions wrong. The solution to the bot problem is vigilance (such as the OP), aggressive detection methods, and not giving fruits like Mr. Bornert any chance to promote their products. I'm sure he's gotten some signups already to his shady site as a result of his postings here.

[5thStreetHog]

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[ QUOTE ]
Can we please get this thread split in two. The intention was to discuss the bot situation on Party whereas the topic now seems to have changed to the merits of cheating/botting in general.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. Ray Bornert is a nutcase who's using this as a platform to promote his products and insane worldview. He lost his marbles some time ago and now gets high on the thought of his bot network taking over the online world. He's quite a sick individual, and I don't know why he should be allowed here, promoting his site and spreading a very one sided perspective of online poker. He has no interest in discussion, as he's made his mind up about what's ethical, what's possible, and what sites should and will eventually do (openly allow collusion and bots). Even though those beliefs and hopes have no grounding in reality.

His frustration that things aren't the way he wants proves most of his assertions wrong. The solution to the bot problem is vigilance (such as the OP), aggressive detection methods, and not giving fruits like Mr. Bornert any chance to promote their products. I'm sure he's gotten some signups already to his shady site as a result of his postings here.

[/ QUOTE ]Phil is right.This jackass has been on a PR campaign here for a couple days now,hoping to promote his retarded site.Never saying anything truthful,just living in his false reality.And hoping to reel in the few like minded idiots that are here.Congrats Ray,you got one, "Cheating has always been a part of poker.That's part of pokers charm." lol

[edfurlong]

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Phil is right.This jackass has been on a PR campaign here for a couple days now,hoping to promote his retarded site.

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I've haven't paid much attention to the dude, but is there actually a site? I just assumed it was his "clever" way of getting a point a across.

Edit: You're talking about the bot site. I'll be quiet and let the adults talk. Carry on.

[Flintoff]

So why isn't he banned.

He flys in the face of everything we genuine players on 2plus2 stand for.

Ban Please.

[5thStreetHog]

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So why isn't he banned.

He flys in the face of everything we genuine players on 2plus2 stand for.

Ban Please.

[/ QUOTE ]I feel he has a right to express his views here.But i also feel like this has been a calculated assault to promote his site.

[flowerizzle]

he should be banned,his site should be closed and all funds he has on sites should be taken away.

this is/will be a huge problem for online poker. 1 big report in tv or a big site about this and many people will stop playing. cheating(which it is.sharing cards,mutliaccount,etc,etc) should NEVER EVER be tolerated.

i cant express what i feel about all that without flaming like hell. so all i say is: I really hate u for what u do to the game we all love u selfish moron

[El Diablo]

All,

I'm pretty sure that all the major poker rooms are aware of bots running on their sites. People have been running casino-bonus-whoring bot networks for a long time. They are able to churn through thousands of accounts and evade anti-fraud measures. Of course these people can also create winning poker bots. It's not hard to create a bot that is slightly profitable. Whether that's a worthwhile pursuit is simply a question of scale.

[Phil153]

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It's not hard to create a bot that is slightly profitable. Whether that's a worthwhile pursuit is simply a question of scale.

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I agree. Which is why aggressive bot detection by the sites and a strong anti-bot stance by the community is so important. Mr. Bornart is right that they will never be eliminated, but they can be managed. ID verification, play analysis, popup Turing tests, and most importantly, funds confiscation for offenders (which Mr. Bornart seems extremely aggravated about in other threads) are the way to keep this threat under control. Very resourceful cheaters will find a away around it, but if they're harassed sufficiently the ratio of legitimate to bot players will always be very good.

And being vigilant like the OP is an important part. Mr. Bornart wants people to believe that bots are inevitable, and there's nothing we can do. And he's wrong.

[stigmata]

This is a key point:

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they can be managed. ID verification, play analysis, popup Turing tests, and most importantly, funds confiscation for offenders [...] are the way to keep this threat under control..... if they're harassed sufficiently the ratio of legitimate to bot players will always be very good.


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I think we need to put foward ideas about what we can do to manage this problem as an organised player body. Two things spring to mind:

A) Lobbying/Harrasing sites to take stronger anti-bot measures, and be more open about how they are tackling the problem. Does someone want to have an attempt at writing a standard letter that we could all foward to our respective sites? Does someone want to try and get Lee Jones' opinion?

B) Organised bot-detection and reporting from our side.