Blind battle, easy fold on the turn?

[Guido]

600NL 5 handed

It's folded to me in the SB with A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. I have $821 and the BB covers. BB is pushing everybody around but isn't bad from what I've seen. Just very aggro both preflop and postflop.

I make it $22 and the BB 3-bets to $38, I call.

Flop comes: A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

I check, should I bet about the pot?

He bets $75, I check-raise to $150. He calls.

Turn is 7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].

I check, he bets $250. I fold.

Please let me know what you would do and why.

Thanks,

Guido

[yvesaint]

your flop c/r is godawful

[Guido]

You got the first part of:

Please let me know what you would do and why.

Can you tell me the why part?

Thanks,

Guido

[CopTHIS]

Guido, why don't you explain why you did put in the min c/r? Yves is right about it.

[emil3000]

Because you fold out very few better hands, and put yourself in a terrible position on the turn, with a huge pot and a likely, but not certain, losing hand. Basically this turn is a spot that you should never put yourself in, it's almost meaningless to comment cause you should make sure you're never in this position.

[emil3000]

An important part of being a winning player a mid stakes is to think ahead in the hand, and make sure you get betsizes and and pot size adequate for what you want to accomplish. This includes not inflating the pot OOP witha weak hand and two streets to go.

[Guido]

Ok, well just saying it's godawful doesn't really help me to understand why. I know this is a limit play and I don't use it very often.

I c/r so when he calls, I know he has a better hand. I can also bet but he would call a lot of hands so I still wouldn't know where I stand. What if I bet the pot and he calls? Do I fire again on the turn? If he raises, do I fold? The C/R is such a strong move that he will only call with a better hand.

Call, call call is too expense and he would continue betting, like I said he was very aggro.

So those were my reasons to make a C/R. Please explain to me why you prefer betting. How much you would bet and what you would do when he calls or raises. Also I would like to know the reasons behind your actions.

Thanks,

Guido

[emil3000]

Check/call is definitely best on this flop. Yes, you put yourself in a position to get outplayed, but really, you don't have a strong hand here at all, most reraising hands beat you. Frankly, a convincing case can be made for check/folding this flop.

[ArturiusX]

At least with betting you're not inflating the pot and not asking to get outplayed. If someone raises, easy muck. But I'd probably check-call and see how they play the turn. Why are you playing this hand so hard?

[Guido]

Hi ArturiusX,

What if you are very sure he's going to bet the turn? Do you still check call the flop?

Why I'm playing this hand so hard? Well, if I bet he will raise most hands, even worse hands. If he calls he calls most turns too. So bet, bet isn't going to tell me a lot either. Check-call, check-call is probably even more expense than a check-raise on the flop. I want to know where I stand and that's why I check-raise the flop. Because he called I knew I was probably far behind and I could check fold the turn safely.

Thanks,

Guido