The 2.5x BB raise - why??

I raise whatever seems to be taking down the blinds. 2.5x frequently will take down the blinds.

I also raise 2.5, or even 2.0, at various points for pot control based on my opponents stack. Say he has 1000 in the BB and it's 50/100 blinds (start with 1500, Stars). Due to his chip/blind ratio, 2.5x is enough to generate fold equity. He might call a few hands he'd otherwise fold, but that's ok, because the real reason for my 2.5x bet is post flop equity.

If I raise preflop to 250 that leaves him with 750 in a 550 chip pot if he calls (assume SB folds). If I then bet 250 as a continuation bet, he's looking having about the same chips as are in the pot and that's important to his decision process.

He has enough chips to fold in a pot this size. That's the key. He can live to fight another day. It's a pot worth having...but perhaps not worth going broke over.

If I raised 3xBB preflop, post flop odds end up more tempting for him. Now he has 700 chips in a 650 pot. If I c-bet 300, now he's looking at a nearly 1000 chip pot and he may feel any-two cards are worth going broke with.

A 2.5BB preflop raise puts me in a situation to have good fold equity on a c-bet where a 3xBB preflop raise doesn't.

Also, in this case, if I'm betting more than 2.5BB, I'm betting probably 4-5BB, not 3. His chip count (10BB) is at an inflection point where he can play a small pot or an all-in. Which I bet depends on my hand. Hands that are hard to play post flop (22-77, A4s, etc) I'll bet 4-5BB preflop. I want to win or be so pot committed that it's and easy call if he shoves back.

Hands that are really strong (AQ+, 99+), I'll raise the 2.5BB because they're strong enough c-bet on many boards or call if he shoves.

Hands like 89s, JTs, etc are the tough ones to decide how to play for me.

[Vinyl Richie]

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You raise 2.5 X the BB because whenever you raise more or less than 2.5, a gay baby is born. That is why.

You are welcome.

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[img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[Jbrochu]

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You raise 2.5 X the BB because whenever you raise more or less than 2.5, a gay baby is born.

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You forgot to add, "not that there's anything wrong with that."

[DevinLake]

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Say he has 1000 in the BB and it's 50/100 blinds (start with 1500, Stars).

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Hmmm, I raise 10xBBs here.

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Say he has 1000 in the BB and it's 50/100 blinds (start with 1500, Stars).

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Hmmm, I raise 10xBBs here.

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Certainly can't fault that given the stack sizes.

Maybe I'm making a mistake, but I like to play a lot of small ball and use post flop position to extract value from people on inflection points because they often misplay it worse than they misplay preflop.

[checkmate36]

I just read an article on pocketfives.com and the lead article in the SNG section mentioned 2.5x's for the reasons already given.

[The Yugoslavian]

All my opponents minraise so that must be best.

Yugoslav

[Prodigy54321]

I started a thread about this a while back when someone pmed me asking about it..

here's the thread

here's my pm back to him (from the thread)..no one commented on it, so feel fre to give comments now

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alright, here's his question and my response..

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first question, i dont understand raising to only 500 at 100/200. can u explain that? do antes change this?



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I'm assuming that you mean 2.5BBs instead of the typical 3-4xBB raise..(am I correct here)..

there are a few reasons for this..

first, I am assuming that your stack is big enough that you can make this raise, and still have enough chips left to c-bet, and fold to a raise if you don't hit..also that you have a mediocre hand that is worthy of a "steal" here essentially..like AT or KQ or something in the CO...if these conditions are not true..it is usually better to push or fold with a mediocre hand..
--basically all of these situations are different..but I'm going to give you my ideas on what should be considered..

it would actually be a good idea to make a thread entitled "what are the reasons to raise to t500 instead of t600 at the t100/t200 level?"..you should get others opinions on this as well..I'm not sure if they re the same as mine..as I don't remember ever discussing this in detail with anyone else..nevertheless you will see a lot of posts telling people to raise a little less than 3xBB...and these are he main resons..I believe.

1)first remember that in most of these situations, the main goal is to pick up the blinds and antes..it is nearly always better to pick up the blinds than get allin with someone..even if you are a slight favorite (fold equity is usually the most important factor with anything other than premium hands)..I'll get back to this in a minute..

2)(preflop decisions)..raising less gives you more room to fold preflop to a reraiser (you will see many posts where the poster raises to t600 with a "decent" hand like AT or KQ say (or to t300 or more in the t50/t100 level) then gets reraised allin for an amount that puts him in a hard spot..since he is most likely beat, but he is being offered close to correct odds to call...so people will respond to the post that he should have raised to t500 instead..since he could then safely fold to the reraise where he is most likely behind..

3)(postflop decisions)..if you don't have enough chips to raise preflop, then c-bet post flop (most fo the time I should say..this isn't always necessary, but it is just meant to imply that it is all about how many chip you have in relation to the blinds)..and fold to a raise, you really shouldn't be raising to begin with with a mediocre hand...you should either be folding or pushing all in depending on whether or not pushing is profitable...

once again, raising less preflop saves you chips preflop (as well as postflop since you c-bet will not need to be as big)

these ideas are both basically extensions of the "10BB" rule..but here was can manipulate our preflop raise amount to accomodate our situation...it's all about making the play that is most profitable...and some times stealing the blinds is most profitable, but we have an amount of chips that makes it hard for us to do that...

a smaller raise allows us to do this with a smaller stack than if we made a larger preflop raise...

alright now back to #1...

#s 2 and 3 would be pretty meaningless if our smaller preflop raise affected our ability to steal the blinds by a large margin...since the majority of the value of our raise preflop is from talkint the blinds without a confrontation..

however, most STT players agree that raising to t500 or t550 instead of to t600 or more..does not affect fold equity by a very large margin...and that the added benefits of this smaller raise as discussed above...DO make up for the slight loss of Fold equity here

all of this is also applicable at the t50/t100 (although to a slightly lesser extent IMO) and basically at any level above that if the effective stack is not too small to make a raise and consider folding (which doesn't happen too often above the t100/t200 level..but it does occasionally)..so raising to t1000 at the t200/t400 level is also the norm if there are stacks of say t4500 of more..

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[bones]

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I just read an article on pocketfives.com and the lead article in the SNG section mentioned 2.5x's for the reasons already given.

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lol pocket5s.

[ryanghall]

lol at them all you want. It appears they're right if that's what they're arguing.

Why raise more than you need to?

I'm actually wondering if 2.5x BB in these situations is slightly too much and I may lower my standard raise to around 2.3x BB.

Long term, it matters.

Ryan