High Card Only Showdown

[CardRG]

High card only at the showdown:

Under what circumstances do you bet the river with nothing but a high card in your hand? I have won a few pots this way after falling one card short of the nut flush or straight.

Is the decision to fold or call mostly based on pot size or your read on your opponent?

[crablegs33]

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Is the decision to fold or call mostly based on pot size or your read on your opponent?

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these two factors should play into just about every decision you make... only difference is you leave out the factor of the strength in your hand because you only beat a bluff...

but yes, those two factors are basically what's left... I think the read on the opponent is very, very important here... whether a player is capable of firing 3 shots off w/ nothing is a definite qualitative note i will make on a player...

[Harv72b]

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Is the decision to fold or call mostly based on pot size or your read on your opponent?

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Almost entirely on my read of the opponent, as well as what I believe he thinks of me. If I've been pretty straightforward during this session about betting the river for value vs. checking through (or check/folding) without a hand, then I think I'm more likely to induce a weak made hand to fold by betting the river. This is especially true if I've been showing down a lot of big hands. I will also occasionally value bet a hand like AK or AQ against a player that I know will pay off with a worse high card hand, or when my image is so bad that an otherwise good player probably will, too.

Honestly, I very rarely bet the river with just a high card. If I see a showdown without a pair it's usually because the river checks through or I check/call an opponent who's holding a busted draw. Or because I've taken the lead throughout the hand with a busted draw of my own, and figure the only way I can win is to bet.

[CardRG]

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I will also occasionally value bet a hand like AK or AQ against a player that I know will pay off with a worse high card hand

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There's A's in both examples. How low will you go? What's the lowest high card you'll bet? K Q J ?

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or when my image is so bad that an otherwise good player probably will, too

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Can you elaborate. I'm not sure what you mean by "bad" table image. Does this mean an image of being a skilled player who wouldn't showdown with garbage. Or a maniac table image, unpredictable, liable to play any hand?

[Harv72b]

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There's A's in both examples. How low will you go? What's the lowest high card you'll bet? K Q J ?

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There's a big difference between betting an AK unimproved for value vs. an AQ or an AT or A2. If I'm betting the hand for value, it's because both of my hole cards are going to play and I'm expecting to be called by a worse, unimproved ace some fair amount of the time. I can't think of an instance where I would bet a K high or worse for value.

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Can you elaborate. I'm not sure what you mean by "bad" table image. Does this mean an image of being a skilled player who wouldn't showdown with garbage. Or a maniac table image, unpredictable, liable to play any hand?

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The latter. If I've been taking a lot of bad beats on the river, or getting caught in several recent bluffs, then some of my opponents are going to think I'm a maniac. Even the regular ones who I've logged thousands of hands against might just think I'm on tilt. So in those instances, I might bet a good ace on the river in the hopes of being called by a worse ace (or K high every so often).

[SixForty]

Lots of times it comes back to basics.

I'll bet or raise my hand if I think there is a good enough chance that Villain will fold a better hand, or call with a worse hand.

I'll call a bet if I think that my hand fares well against Villain's possible range.

In the case of just having an Ace high hand, when do I bet? I'll bet against players who often call to the river with bottom or middle pair, but fold the river if they don't catch two pair. (But this is a bluff that can be done with any two cards) I'll bet against someone who calls all the way with overcards but folds the river, if I think that my kicker can't withstand a showdown. And I'll bet with an Ace high with a good kicker (like a Q or a J) against someone who will call down with weaker Ace high hands.

I've also been incorporating into my game some bluffs based on game theory against some better opponents - but I'm still learning how to best do this.

But in all cases, I'll only bet if it makes sense. If my bet comes out of nowhere, or has reason to not be believable, I'm less likely to do it. For example, if I raised a draw on the flop, and then checked behind on the turn to take a free card, and now it is checked to me on the river, I'm less likely to fire that bet.

Again, it's something that is so situational based on the play of the hand, the size of the pot, and your read on your opponents.

I'll call with an Ace high hand when I think that there's a good enough chance that the bettor has something worse. Like if the flop had both a possible straight draw and a flush draw that both didn't come in by the river, there's a higher chance that he's bluffing.

Again, it can be very read dependent. Some people, if they bet the whole way on a draw, will ALWAYS fire a pure bluff on the river when they miss. Call them more often. Others will almost never pure bluff on the river, so call them very rarely.

As for how far down do you go in high card value? I'm a bit more likely to bet with LOWER cards, since they have no showdown value. This is even more likely if I have position, since my opponent has already checked, showing a bit of weakness.

I've called down with King high a couple of times against maniacs. And people who push draws hard and bluff the river when they miss. And I've even called down with Queen high (QJs) a couple of times after I missed my draw, but the flop was draw heavy and the pot was huge and it was heads up and my lone opponent was very bluff happy, and there was a good enough chance he was betting a 98s straight draw type of hand.

One piece of advice I'd give - never overcall with just a high card hand. If someone bets the river, and someone else calls, the chances of your AK unimproved winning the pot is next to nil. The pot would have to be huge for you to even consider it.

[SixForty]

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I can't think of an instance where I would bet a K high or worse for value.

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I remember a hand that James posted long ago that he bluffed with JT unimproved on the river. He got called - and won!

God bless opponents who will let me value bet my Jack high! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[WalkAmongUs]

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Honestly, I very rarely bet the river with just a high card. If I see a showdown without a pair it's usually because the river checks through or I check/call an opponent who's holding a busted draw. Or because I've taken the lead throughout the hand with a busted draw of my own, and figure the only way I can win is to bet.

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i follows this advice as well. Occasionally I will bet the river with A high. This occurs when I've read my opponent's hand well and the board specifically makes it likely that my opponent probably only has high cards as well...and I always have AK or AQ in these situations.

[Harv72b]

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As for how far down do you go in high card value? I'm a bit more likely to bet with LOWER cards, since they have no showdown value. This is even more likely if I have position, since my opponent has already checked, showing a bit of weakness.

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This is not betting for value, though, it is betting as a bluff. I've bluffed rivers with 3 high before (yes, really [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]), but I'm obviously not hoping for a showdown there.

[SixForty]

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As for how far down do you go in high card value? I'm a bit more likely to bet with LOWER cards, since they have no showdown value. This is even more likely if I have position, since my opponent has already checked, showing a bit of weakness.

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This is not betting for value, though, it is betting as a bluff. I've bluffed rivers with 3 high before (yes, really [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]), but I'm obviously not hoping for a showdown there.

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True - that's really what I meant though. I'll use the lower ones to bluff, since I can never win a showdown. If I have AK and it's checked to me, I'm more likely to check it behind and hope - my hand does have at least some showdown value here.