How Do Non-Rational Players Succeed in Poker?

[cero_z]

Hi Prev,
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and cero z i think you are confused on the idea of subconscious mind. in this case we are relying on experience. it thinks faster and more efficiently when dealing with decisions which are similar to past experiences, but when faced with something brand new you cant just blank out and then be struck with an epiphany of the correct move. you just have to think it out.


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This is just flat-out wrong. You can certainly be struck with an epiphany of the correct move, and if you are, it's because your subconsciousness has filtered and processed the necessary factors to make the best decision. I really don't know what you mean by "brand new," anyway. It's poker, and there are always going to be lots of familiar elements.

FF, Blink did focus on instant reactions, and for that matter, it's not a good piece of science by any means (basically all anecdotal "evidence" that's open to a wide range of interpretations). However, it also addresses the subconscious mind in general, and many other books and studies have, as well. The idea that our brains are processing much more subconsciously than consciously is not controversial, right? The real question, and the one that I think FF, Prev, Bruiser et al. would disagree with me about, is, "to what extent can we tap into the subconscious, and how much can it help us?"

[Prevaricator]

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This is just flat-out wrong. You can certainly be struck with an epiphany of the correct move, and if you are, it's because your subconsciousness has filtered and processed the necessary factors to make the best decision. I really don't know what you mean by "brand new," anyway. It's poker, and there are always going to be lots of familiar elements.


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alright, i guess it can happen, but its unlikely and certainly not more reliable than actually thinking about your decision. in addition, the sudden gut reaction might just be that shot in the dark guess that i mentioned earlier, you end up convincing yourself of one option over another irrationally and incorrectly.

also, why are conscious thought and subconscious thought mutually exclusive. why cant you be thinking subconsciously about the hand at the same time you are actively deciding what to do -- why does requin have to unfocus his mind and focus it on something else? sometimes it helps when you are stuck on a problem, to stop and then approach it from a different angle but i dont think that is what is going on here. the answer that requin gave, that he stops so he can hear his 'gut' better seems to be more like using that random guess as his instinct, and is likely to be wrong a lot.

[DJ Sensei]

I definitely file myself under the mathematical/logical heading as a player... but I also think the best hands i've ever played (at least in my opinion) generally happen without me thinking long and hard objectively about the action. I just feel that a particular action is very, very good in a certain spot, and I squeeze the trigger in a big spot. Usually, it works, and its awesome.

Later on I can go back over the hand and analyze it more thoroughly, and the math or objective analysis is generally there to back me up.

But I think the ability to make these subconscious comes from tens of thousands of hands of varied situations which I've experienced and internalized. I don't think theres any way to specifically teach that ability, but if there was it would be very valuable.