200-400 Hand.

[PokerBob]

it may depend a bit on my knowledge of button, but i'd likely call here.

[Turning Stone Pro]

[ QUOTE ]
it may depend a bit on my knowledge of button, but i'd likely call here.

[/ QUOTE ]

For me, it would depend on my knowledge of the opener. The issue is whether the opener looks like he is going to check-raise the button if I improve on the turn and it's checked to the button.

TSP

[PokerBob]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
it may depend a bit on my knowledge of button, but i'd likely call here.

[/ QUOTE ]

For me, it would depend on my knowledge of the opener.

[/ QUOTE ]

i've thought more about this and i agree that i'd like to have a good read on the opener as well, and actually would RATHER have a read on this guy. would he call 2-cold back to him prelop with a hand like AJ? what is he peeling this flop with? if he has a hand like 77, wouldn't he try to c/r me out of the pot on the flop? i think his flop call is more of a problem than button's flop bet.

[Lestat]

Reads are always nice, but this one is all math. If you help on the turn, it won't really matter much what you're against. You'll either have odds to continue or you won't.

Btw- Closing the action, I'd call the flop every time.

[Turning Stone Pro]

[ QUOTE ]
Reads are always nice, but this one is all math.

[/ QUOTE ]

Les, I agree with this, and that's why I feel knowledge of the opener is critical.

Let's say the turn improves your draw, or even gives you top pair or a pair or jacks. Whether the opener is going to check-raise the turn or not is paramount, since this is the difference between seeing the critical river card for 1 BB, or as many as 4. Huge mathematical difference.

Remember, the key to this problem, IMO, is that we have to figure the + or - ev knowing we need to hit twice. What it costs to get to the river is the most important factor.

TSP