Pokerstars Is Fixed

[ZKoeske]

[ QUOTE ]


The reason you get slammed is not because all the folks on here can prove online poker is legit, but because the reasons you give for your belief that it is not, are simply downright silly. For what you're saying to make sense, the sites would have to rig the play in a way that doesn't make very much rational sense, and then you would have to be able to detect it without any sort of statistical analysis, but just from playing in the game, and somehow be able to determine that what you are seeing is different from the ordinary improbabilities that we would expect to see anyway. It just don't hold water.


[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not saying that sites are rigged exclusively the way I have postulated. I was just saying that that is what I have experienced(albeit without any tracking device) most often. They may be rigged differently, or they may not be rigged at all. I don't think speculation about one way it might be rigged is any more silly than another way.

You stated that if it were fixed, it would be done so subtly that one could not notice without a detailed statistcal analysis. And about this I agree. You would think that if anyone were going to try to cheat millions of people they wouldn't make it so blatant, but thats my whole point. To me, and to some other people, it seems extremely blatant at times. That is why people have noticed it and complained about it. If it was so hard to detect and only these minor tweaks that you speak of were occurring then no one would have a problem with online poker or complain that it was fixed. It's only these blatant occurrences that make people wary and speculative.

And yes, I understand that such "blatant" bad beats are to be expected, and my perception of them is likely much different than reality, but that's just my current stance at the moment, as stupid and ignorant as you might think I am.

[Zetack]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


The reason you get slammed is not because all the folks on here can prove online poker is legit, but because the reasons you give for your belief that it is not, are simply downright silly. For what you're saying to make sense, the sites would have to rig the play in a way that doesn't make very much rational sense, and then you would have to be able to detect it without any sort of statistical analysis, but just from playing in the game, and somehow be able to determine that what you are seeing is different from the ordinary improbabilities that we would expect to see anyway. It just don't hold water.


[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not saying that sites are rigged exclusively the way I have postulated. I was just saying that that is what I have experienced(albeit without any tracking device) most often. They may be rigged differently, or they may not be rigged at all. I don't think speculation about one way it might be rigged is any more silly than another way.

You stated that if it were fixed, it would be done so subtly that one could not notice without a detailed statistcal analysis. And about this I agree. You would think that if anyone were going to try to cheat millions of people they wouldn't make it so blatant, but thats my whole point. To me, and to some other people, it seems extremely blatant at times. That is why people have noticed it and complained about it. If it was so hard to detect and only these minor tweaks that you speak of were occurring then no one would have a problem with online poker or complain that it was fixed. It's only these blatant occurrences that make people wary and speculative.

And yes, I understand that such "blatant" bad beats are to be expected, and my perception of them is likely much different than reality, but that's just my current stance at the moment, as stupid and ignorant as you might think I am.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey I did say that your beliefs are both silly and irrational, that may not be nice, I know, but I certainly did not mean to call you either stupid or ignorant. Plenty of highly intelligent and well educated people believer online poker is not entirely legit.

But hearing you refer to what you see as "blantant" makes me think you haven't thought very much about what sort of distribution of events you would expect to see in a non-rigged game, or the nature of probabilities in poker. Which is fine, you don't have to, doesn't make you a bad person. But go in the probability section of this forum and see if the folks who have done a lot of thinking about this agree that what you're describing is "blantant."

*Hint* I know the answer as to what they will say, and you should be able to glean something from the fact I'm not agreeing with you.

I played live on Tuesday. I got all my money in with A-Q against KK (hey the math was with me). Flop came J,9,x. Turn 8, river, 10. Runner runner straight for me. Live play is effin rigged, OMG!!!!. but the thing is, I'm actually going to win that hand somehow (including runer runer straights) almost 30 percent of the time when my money goes in PF. Its not that astounding, even though the odds of going runner runner gutshot like that is pretty damn bad. This kind of improbability happens all the time in poker. But over 6 hours of play, I'm lucky to see 150 hands live. When I play online, over 3 hours (half the time) I'll see about 800 hands. So I see this kinda shyte five times more often in half the time. Of course that seems "Blatant." Its not. its a perception problem.

--Zetack