Show one, show all drama in the Borg $2-5 NL

[AKQJ10]

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that said, this situation makes you look extremely nitty and if you want my advice, you should knock it off.

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"It" being the original request to see his cards after the hand, right?

Thanks. Assuming that's what you meant, I'm coming to the same conclusion. Yes, there is value to knowing where your opponent's range is to call a reraise (would he have called with JJ? TT? Does he understand he doesn't have odds to call with 88 and spike a set?). But episodes like this appear commonplace and my obsession is probably losing me EV.

Angus is right: People just don't understand that SOSA applies before the river.

[AngusThermopyle]

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Yes, there is value to knowing where your opponent's range is to call a reraise (would he have called with JJ? TT? Does he understand he doesn't have odds to call with 88 and spike a set?).

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The problem is that he is giving the information to his neighbors, not to everybody at the table. I just want to be on equal footing with his neighbors.

[The Ocho]

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Yes, there is value to knowing where your opponent's range is to call a reraise (would he have called with JJ? TT? Does he understand he doesn't have odds to call with 88 and spike a set?).

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The problem is that he is giving the information to his neighbors, not to everybody at the table. I just want to be on equal footing with his neighbors.

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nit.

[AKQJ10]

Me too, obviously. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] This comes up enough that it's probably worth addressing as a dealer training issue.

What would be the ideal procedure here? In my view, perhaps an observant dealer should set aside the cards without being asked, and wait until the very end of the hand to integrate them in the muck. At that point an observant player could discreetly say, "I'd like to see," and she could turn them over for the whole table. The owner of the hand might object and get a lesson in SOSA, but the effect would look less like the player who asked to see was being a nit.

The problem with that suggestion is, the dealer can't possibly see what's going on at both ends of the table simultaneously. Still, it's better than making me admit in public to my nittishness.

I don't say that the dealer should go so far as to offer to show the hand, but it seems like she could facilitate it. But that's asking a lot, which is why better training on this issue might be helpful.

The Borgata staff (both dealer and floor) handled it well in this situation, as they generally do, but there's gotta be a way to grant me my SOSA rights without forcing me to piss off the whole table to get them. Doesn't there?

[The Ocho]

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...but the effect would look less like the player who asked to see was being a nit...

... Still, it's better than making me admit to my nittishness...

... but there's gotta be a way to grant me my SOSA rights without forcing me to piss off the whole table to get them. Doesn't there?

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frankly, i dont see why poker rooms should make things any easier on the nits. just resign yourself to the abandonment your strict, nittish "sosa rights" and relax.

also, if you still must know their hole cards in situations like this, try and build a repore (spelling?) with the guy at the other end of the table and get him to reveal his holdings willingly to you every once in a while.

nittiness is almost never the way.

[MediaPA]

Well, I was in the other end of the situation.

I limp, re-raised the person next to me with AK. He was the only one in the pot. I showed him my cards after he folded and flipped them towards the dealer. The dealer tabled my hand. I asked him who wanted to see my hand. The dealer just replied 'show one show all.' I wasn't really mad about it or anything, but it was the first time I ever saw a dealer do this without it being requested.

[Wongboy]

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Well, I was in the other end of the situation.

I limp, re-raised the person next to me with AK. He was the only one in the pot. I showed him my cards after he folded and flipped them towards the dealer. The dealer tabled my hand. I asked him who wanted to see my hand. The dealer just replied 'show one show all.' I wasn't really mad about it or anything, but it was the first time I ever saw a dealer do this without it being requested.

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Don't be mad at that dealer, he just saved you a ton of money since he no longer deserves any tips from you.

[GrinningBuddha]

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Well, I was in the other end of the situation.

I limp, re-raised the person next to me with AK. He was the only one in the pot. I showed him my cards after he folded and flipped them towards the dealer. The dealer tabled my hand. I asked him who wanted to see my hand. The dealer just replied 'show one show all.' I wasn't really mad about it or anything, but it was the first time I ever saw a dealer do this without it being requested.

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Don't be mad at that dealer, he just saved you a ton of money since he no longer deserves any tips from you.

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From Robert's Rules of Poker:

6. Show one, show all. Players are entitled to receive equal access to information about the contents of another player’s hand. After a deal, if cards are shown to another player, every player at the table has a right to see those cards.
During a deal, cards that were shown to an active player who might have a further wagering decision on that betting round must immediately be shown to all the other players. If the player who saw the cards is not involved in the deal, or cannot use the information in wagering, the information should be withheld until the betting is over, so it does not affect the normal outcome of the deal. Cards shown to a person who has no more wagering decisions on that betting round, but might use the information on a later betting round, should be shown to the other players at the conclusion of that betting round. If only a portion of the hand has been shown, there is no requirement to show any of the unseen cards. The shown cards are treated as given in the preceding part of this rule.

The dealer was following the rules and doing his job correctly, and you want to punish him for it? Very classy.

AK, you were within your rights to see the hand, and the other players were not within their rights to see yours. This might be one of those times that what's right may be trumped by what's best for the game in general. If you want to keep the game light and loose, requesting hands to be shown is probably not in your best interest. As is obvious in this thread, many poker players have no idea how the rules work.

[steamraise]

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I showed him my cards after he folded and flipped them towards the dealer. The dealer tabled my hand. I asked him who wanted to see my hand. The dealer just replied 'show one show all.'

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That's completely out of line.

I would be talking to his supervisor.

[jba]

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that said, this situation makes you look extremely nitty and if you want my advice, you should knock it off.

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"It" being the original request to see his cards after the hand, right?


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exactly. like I said it's your right, and if there was anything fishy going on at all I'd do the same, but if you're just trying to figure him out I wouldn't do it, especially if the game is already good.

honestly I think you get very little good info in situations like this, you can deduce that he's folding a good hand here, maybe 88 or TT or AQ or something of the sort. Knowing the specific hand might help a little in a situation later on, but it can cut both ways. when you ask to see it you're ensuring that the other 7-8 people at the table see it as well, and now they might start wondering if maybe they shouldnt start folding AQo sometimes preflop.


and yes the rule applies to all streets not just post-river, but post-river is where it most often occurs and really the only time it can be invoked without disrupting the game. about the only time I ever invoke it is if I'm watching a showdown, player A bets, player B folds after flashing his cards to another player.. I'll ask player B "what did you have?" most players realize that I have a right to this info and they'll just tell me, the dealer doesn't have to be involved, the game goes on, I look like I'm just curious and not trying to be the rule enforcer.