Israel's Attack on Lebanon and Hezbollah

[Cyrus]

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Where do you come up with this stuff? What "land" does Israel want?

[/ QUOTE ]Yep, you're right. You're an Israeli, you must know more. Absolutely. Israel never wanted land and does not want land now.And that's a matter of historical fact.

The Golan Heights, for example, are held for the sake of astronomy. It's not a land grab. There's a plan to build an observatory up there. Soon as it's done, they return that lot to Syria. It wasn't in the original U.N. plan anyway -- as the West Bank wasn't, Eastern Jerusalem wasn't, Gaza wasn't, Sinai wasn't, Southern Lebanon wasn't. These were all accidents. They just happened. Nobody can accuse Israel for any of that.

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[TaintedRogue]

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Where do you come up with this stuff? What "land" does Israel want?

[/ QUOTE ]Yep, you're right. You're an Israeli, you must know more. Absolutely. Israel never wanted land and does not want land now.And that's a matter of historical fact.

The Golan Heights, for example, are held for the sake of astronomy. It's not a land grab. There's a plan to build an observatory up there. Soon as it's done, they return that lot to Syria. It wasn't in the original U.N. plan anyway -- as the West Bank wasn't, Eastern Jerusalem wasn't, Gaza wasn't, Sinai wasn't, Southern Lebanon wasn't. These were all accidents. They just happened. Nobody can accuse Israel for any of that.

[img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

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The reason the Jews occupy more land than was agreed upon in 1948, is due to inflation?

[Cyrus]

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There is a growing population of [Palestinian] people who detest the fanatical Muslim terrorists that attack Israel.

[/ QUOTE ] You mean there are Palestinian people who are suffering from the "fanatical Muslim terrorists" worse things than from the Israelis?

Somehow I don't think they are that many...

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I think he was implying that some Palestinians are realizing that the fundamental Muslim terrorists are making things much worse for the Palestinian people, not better.

[/ QUOTE ]I understand that perspective. Now try this one:

There is no other alternative !

The Palestinians have finally, ultimately voted in power (through a generally honest and fair voting process) the extreme religious fundamentalists, after years (decades) of voting in the secular moderates.

Now, taking also into account what you wrote (i.e. that religious fundamentalists are making life hell for Palestinians), we have only three possible explanations:

1. The Palestinians are all crazy and murderous. That's the Felix_Nietsche/BluffTHIS explanation. It contradicts the previous voting record of the Palestinians, of course, but it makes the world simpler for the simple-minded.

2. The Palestinians have been radicalised. Let's see: Palestinians are voting in power the secular moderates time after time after time. The secular moderates gradually regress to practically everything that Israel demanded of Palestinians (recognition of its "right to exist", abandoning terror, etc) have turned more radical. Israel continues to pound the Palestinians down. The prospect of an independent Palestinian state gets farther and farther away. Indeed, the leading Israeli politicians of the last decade, i.e. Sharon, Netanyahu, have flatly rejected such a "dangerous idea". What is the voting public supposed to do? What is the everyday Palestinian supposed to do? More of the same? At some point in time, the Palestinians are radicalised out of desperation and cast their vote with the radicals.

3. The Palestinians have become more religious. Seems that way, yes. After decades of being the most secular tribe among the Arabs (once again : Arafat's wife was a Christian; where else in Araby would that be possible?), the Palestinians have finally turned religious. Once more, utter desperation explains why humans turn belatedly religious. Is this era such a time? For the cornered, humiliated, despondent Palestinians it must look that way.

--Cyrus

[Cyrus]

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The reason the Jews occupy more land than was agreed upon in 1948, is due to inflation?

[/ QUOTE ]That too.

And don't forget obesity.

[ahnuld]

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The reason the Jews occupy more land than was agreed upon in 1948, is due to inflation?

[/ QUOTE ]That too.

And don't forget obesity.

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The golan heights are the most strategic lands in all of Israel. It would be suicide to give it back. Lsrael gave back alot of the land that they won when they were attacked. Asking them to give back this particular piece is ridiculous. It would be an open invitation to terrorists to move in and launch more effective rockets and mortar shells, not to mention if there is another war with lebanon, a huge military advantage.

[ahnuld]

Also, have you ever been to the golan heights. Cool view man. Cant give that [censored] up.

[ACPlayer]

Is Golan Heights part of Israel?

Silly me -- Israel does not define its borders -- just redefines to suit the moment!

[Yuv]

Golan Heights, for example, were "grabbed" after a long session of 7 card stud, when Syria raised with rolled up aces over kings and Israel rivered a straight flush.

There wasn't a regional attack on Israel, attempting to destroy it from the ground. Israel just stole the Golan with that damn river. Silly us.

Eastern Jerusalem was won in a badugi game, damn Jordanian can't play BOT to save their lives.

[Yuv]

Btw, Cyrus, your "well thought out" 9th grade analysis of Palestine voting is based upon Arafat being a peace loving leader shuttered by Israeli leaders? [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] That's gold, Jerry, gold.

After the Oslo agreements, what exactly happen during 1995-1996? Damn faulty busses in Israel, they kept exploding by themself. We need to work on those damn busses.

[nicky g]

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Loving the pro-Israeli (or at least anti-Arab) bias in the media. Some things never change.

(disclaimer: I'm Lebanese-American and my parents still live in Beirut)

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1. How would you report the events differently?

2. How should Israel have responded to the cross border raid which resulted in the death of 6 soldiers and kidnapping of two more? (imagine u were Israeli PM)

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8 soldiers were killed. 3 in the patrol vehicle that was attacked, 4 in the tank and one soldier from the rescue mission, who was killed by a sniper.

2 more, as you said, are still in captivity.

The notion that Israel should negotiate a "prisoner trade" is insane. The Hizbollah, or Hamas (who still hold Gilad Shavit, a 19 year old israeli soldier in Gaza) cannot be rewarded for killing and kidnapping soldiers. If we release prisoners on their demand we will be rewarding terrorist for their actions. That is utterly unacceptable.

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Population Israel: 6,352,117
Population United States: 298,444,215 CIA Word Factbook

In U.S. terms 8 dead Israeli soldiers equals 376 U.S. soldiers. Think about what the U.S. would do if a terrorist organization crossed our borders and killed 376 soldiers.

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This kind of argument is absurd. If I declare a state of two people, and one of them gets killed, do I get to respond the same way China would if 500 million people got killed? People's lives don't become more or less important because they live in a smaller country.