Typical Home Game Rake?

[Richard Tanner]

[ QUOTE ]
The raker better not be playing in the games that he's raking.


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What is wrong with props LL?

Cody

[Lottery Larry]

"What is wrong with props LL?"

Cody, prop players are one thing- though I'm not keen on paying them twice, I could see their utility in some cases.

Card room "owners" who are pulling in rake and playing against me, with THEIR dealers? Think about that last one for a second.

For both props and owners, they have a distinct interest in generating large pots. Can you see how you might face a bit of a disadvantage, when they profit either way?

Could that skew expected results, risk implicit collusion, and other such dangers?

I'd have to be DAMNED sure about the props and the owners before I'd be too keen about an underground room with this setup.

Word from some players that I know, about an underground club in South Philly that got busted eventually, is that the dealers would report back to the owner about your play (even looking at your discards and folds!) and THEN the owner would come sit down..... AND collect rake.

I don't say this always happens, but again I'd have to be REALLY REALLY sure about the integrity of a lot of people before I'd feel "safe" that I wasn't getting teamed. That's a lot of people to pay attention to, constantly, without all of the other players as well.

Just my thoughts. What are yours?

[chesspain]

[ QUOTE ]
"What is wrong with props LL?"

Cody, prop players are one thing- though I'm not keen on paying them twice, I could see their utility in some cases.

Card room "owners" who are pulling in rake and playing against me, with THEIR dealers? Think about that last one for a second.

For both props and owners, they have a distinct interest in generating large pots. Can you see how you might face a bit of a disadvantage, when they profit either way?

Could that skew expected results, risk implicit collusion,

[/ QUOTE ]

I play at an underground, single table, 5/10 kill game where the pots are raked at $2 at $40, $4 at $100. There is no dedicated dealer, and the playing host provides soft drinks and a couple of hot, buffet-like entrees (e.g. meatballs and pasta, shepherds' pie, cookies, etc.).

Half of the regular players in the game are loose-passive fish. The host, who seems to be a decent card-reader, nonetheless plays like someone who has the goal of only breaking even (excluding his rake). He plays fairly loose preflop, and ABC post-flop. He almost never raises the expensive streets without the goods, and if he is heads-up against an older, loose-passive, regular, he'll sometimes flash his TP/flush card after betting/raising the river while saying "Are you sure you want to call?" I very rarely get such special treatment, but I think he also knows that when he and I are heads-up, I expect each of us to play for max. profit.

Obviously this host is a very genial guy, and a shrewd business man. And since the closest casino (Foxwoods) is more than 2.5 hours away, driving forty minutes to this game, where I average at least $25+/hr, doesn't seem like a bad deal.

[Lottery Larry]

[ QUOTE ]

The host, who seems to be a decent card-reader, nonetheless plays like someone who has the goal of only breaking even (excluding his rake). I expect each of us to play for max. profit.

Obviously this host is a very genial guy, and a shrewd business man. .

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, he's bringing in easily $50 or more an hour, which should easily cover his expenses and then some. Shrewd, indeed.

[B.C.]

Home game rake should be ZERO unless it is for expenses. I host a game every month for friends: absolutely no rake. We split the pizza, BYO Beer and I toss in a few bags of chips. Other home game I play in we collect $1 from the first 100-150 pots as the host insists on supplying giant BBQ steaks (cooked by him to perfection) as well as beers and snacks for everyone.

Guess it may be slightly different among strangers but only to cover genuine expenses.

[SFBAY23]

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Home game rake should be ZERO unless it is for expenses...

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Agreed. I have a friend from college that had a raked HG; word got around and police came one night. He lucked out and they only gave a warning. (I think at the time they came, they had not started and no game was going yet)

This was in central California... CA in general has specific laws against any private party acting as the house. Don't know the penalties, but back to my point, covering expenses sounds fair.

[chesspain]

[ QUOTE ]
Home game rake should be ZERO unless it is for expenses. I host a game every month for friends: absolutely no rake. We split the pizza, BYO Beer and I toss in a few bags of chips. Other home game I play in we collect $1 from the first 100-150 pots as the host insists on supplying giant BBQ steaks (cooked by him to perfection) as well as beers and snacks for everyone.

Guess it may be slightly different among strangers but only to cover genuine expenses.

[/ QUOTE ]

Since you responded to a response to my response, I assume you realize that there is a difference between a home game and an underground game?

[B.C.]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Home game rake should be ZERO unless it is for expenses. I host a game every month for friends: absolutely no rake. We split the pizza, BYO Beer and I toss in a few bags of chips. Other home game I play in we collect $1 from the first 100-150 pots as the host insists on supplying giant BBQ steaks (cooked by him to perfection) as well as beers and snacks for everyone.

Guess it may be slightly different among strangers but only to cover genuine expenses.

[/ QUOTE ]

Since you responded to a response to my response, I assume you realize that there is a difference between a home game and an underground game?

[/ QUOTE ]

Responded to no one. Just added an opinion. And yes I understand the difference, I play in both regularly.

[Richard Tanner]

Larry,
SOrry about not getting back to this thread in a timely manner, damn life.
In any case, I totally agree with you, and potential conflict of interest should be fully investigated. I've been fortunate to be in situations where I knew who the game runners, props, and dealers were and that they were on the level. That said, my sample size is very small, and I think players going to unfamilier settings should definitely take your advice.

As for the pot building, I never understood that. I always thought the best thing for a game runner was to see $50 pots (assumeing that's the max rake level for a 1/2NL game) and not much more. If the pots are too small, there's no rake, if they're too big, the rake is the same but players go broke to fast and the game breaks. Just my take on that, given the number of people that think differently, I've cast some doubt on my opinion.

Cody