Folding pocket rockets pf

[grapabo]

Unless you read these players as playing absolute junk, you probably had them all dominated, in that most of the cards that make their hand will make a better hand for you.

The odds that your hand holds up would certainly justify the call with roughly 4-1 odds (depending on the other chip stacks).

[JKratzer]

[ QUOTE ]

Unless you read these players as playing absolute junk, you probably had them all dominated

[/ QUOTE ]

You still have them dominated. Never fold AA pf. There are some hypothetical situations where it MIGHT be right to do so, but odds are you (or I or anyone else) will never be confronted with such a situation. So never do it.

JKratzer

[tcreast]

yeah, in a cash game you should never fold AA preflop. The only situation where a fold might be correct is if you were in the same position (chip lead) in some type of satellite tournament where like the top 5 places all recieved the same amount of money, and your chip stack was strong enough that your chances of making the money were better than your chance of winning this hand. Even in a tournament with a normal payout, the money is so weighted toward the top that you have to call here and possibly put yourself in an excellent position to win.

[Hi2ya]

I'm still new to the game but I play to win money and don't put a lot of value in playing pots against many opponets just for the sake of the cards I hold. I've found it is much too easy to lose a lot of money in a marginal situation (all-in, before the flop, against 4 opponents, even if I'm the favorite) and then have to play a hundred hands to win back what I lost on my pocket AA than to just fold that one hand and take advantage of the next ten hands where I can see a couple of flops for a reasonable investment and continue adding dollars to my stake. How wrong am I? I'm talking about NL ring games, not tourneys. I think there is a time and a place to push any hand including AA, and maybe a time not to push.

[Bez]

You're thinking about this the wrong way. Every time you go all-in pre-flop with AA you're making Sklansky dollars. Even if your pot equity is below 50% due to numerous opponents, the profits from your wins will more than make up for your losses.

All-in pre-flop with AA in a cash game is one of the best situations a poker player can be in. Don't ever fold them pre-flop.

[tcreast]

I can think of a couple of situations when I might consider folding Aces preflop. The first would be if I were playing during a thunderstorm, and the power in my house went out. The second would be if I dropped dead in the middle of the hand.*
* It should be noted however that in case 2, I would still make every effort to move all-in with my Aces.

[Hi2ya]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm still new to the game but I play to win money and don't put a lot of value in playing pots against many opponets just for the sake of the cards I hold. I've found it is much too easy to lose a lot of money in a marginal situation (all-in, before the flop, against 4 opponents, even if I'm the favorite) and then have to play a hundred hands to win back what I lost on my pocket AA than to just fold that one hand and take advantage of the next ten hands where I can see a couple of flops for a reasonable investment and continue adding dollars to my stake. How wrong am I? I'm talking about NL ring games, not tourneys. I think there is a time and a place to push any hand including AA, and maybe a time not to push.

[/ QUOTE ] Can someone tell me my rough EV if I go all-in on the button in the above situation over 1,000,000 hands? Say my opponents have KQs, KK, J10s, 76s (very loose 1/2 NL game) as an example.

[Hi2ya]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm still new to the game but I play to win money and don't put a lot of value in playing pots against many opponets just for the sake of the cards I hold. I've found it is much too easy to lose a lot of money in a marginal situation (all-in, before the flop, against 4 opponents, even if I'm the favorite) and then have to play a hundred hands to win back what I lost on my pocket AA than to just fold that one hand and take advantage of the next ten hands where I can see a couple of flops for a reasonable investment and continue adding dollars to my stake. How wrong am I? I'm talking about NL ring games, not tourneys. I think there is a time and a place to push any hand including AA, and maybe a time not to push.

[/ QUOTE ] Can someone tell me my rough EV if I go all-in on the button in the above situation over 1,000,000 hands? Say my opponents have KQs, KK, J10s, 76s (very loose 1/2 NL game) as an example.

[/ QUOTE ]Assume 2 short stacks and 3 average nearly equal stacks including mine?

[WhiteWolf]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm still new to the game but I play to win money and don't put a lot of value in playing pots against many opponets just for the sake of the cards I hold. I've found it is much too easy to lose a lot of money in a marginal situation (all-in, before the flop, against 4 opponents, even if I'm the favorite) and then have to play a hundred hands to win back what I lost on my pocket AA than to just fold that one hand and take advantage of the next ten hands where I can see a couple of flops for a reasonable investment and continue adding dollars to my stake. How wrong am I? I'm talking about NL ring games, not tourneys. I think there is a time and a place to push any hand including AA, and maybe a time not to push.

[/ QUOTE ] Can someone tell me my rough EV if I go all-in on the button in the above situation over 1,000,000 hands? Say my opponents have KQs, KK, J10s, 76s (very loose 1/2 NL game) as an example.

[/ QUOTE ]

twodimes is your friend:

http://twodimes.net/h/?z=1491405
pokenum -h ac as - kc ks - kd qd - jh th - 7c 6c
Holdem Hi: 850668 enumerated boards
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
As Ac 366022 43.03 483796 56.87 850 0.10 0.430
Ks Kc 56229 6.61 790166 92.89 4273 0.50 0.068
Kd Qd 104399 12.27 741996 87.23 4273 0.50 0.125
Jh Th 160733 18.89 689085 81.01 850 0.10 0.189
7c 6c 159012 18.69 690806 81.21 850 0.10 0.187

Your shortstack requirement needlessly complicates things (you don't specify which hands are the shortstack), so we'll assume everyone has the same stack size of $100.

With 43% equity in a 5-way pot, you will lose $100 net 57% of the time, but win $400 net 43% of the time (this ignores the .1% you split the pot). Per hand:

(.43 * 400) + (.57 * -100) = 172 + -57 = 115.

On average, you lose out on $115 (!!!) dollars in profit each time you fold in this situation. Over a million hands, that is 115 million dollars. That's right, 115 million dollars. Even though you win the showdown only 43% of the time, the payoff is so big when you do hit that it should be obvious that folding is about the worst thing you can possibly do.

[Hi2ya]

WhiteWolf, thanks alot for the explanation.