Peyton Manning?

[Clarkmeister]

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No. We only piss on his performaces in games where he gets knocked out of the playoffs. That's the whole point. He's All-Universe until it really matters, and be it against the Patriots, or at home in the 2nd round off a bye (this is the 2nd time he's blown one of *those*), he's all-scrub when the pressure is really on the line.

It's not that we aren't willing to give him credit for rocking in Week 6. It's just that we know what's waiting around the corner when things start to get hot and heavy.

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He did a bad job of blocking in this game, I agree. Manning's got to get to the line and seal off the oncoming linemen, push them away, then throw the ball.

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Yawwwwwwwwwwwwn. It's *never* his fault according to his defenders. The fact is that every one of the recent elimination games were eminently winnable if he has even an *average* game.

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Yawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwn, the exaggeration defense. Of course Manning takes a share of the blame, but saying things like "He's an awful QB" and "He can't play in the clutch" is just stupid. He played a decent game. Could he have played better? Sure. But again, there are others on the field after Manning. There's even a coach or two that helps.

Cody

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That's the whole point. All of their recent elimination games were winnable if he and he alone has an average game. That includes the D, the O-Line, the WR's and the RB. Change one variable, that being Manning's performance, and they win ALL of those games. If they lose by 30, your argument that it's everyone's fault has merit. But the fact remains that relative to his typical high standard, he has VASTLY underperformed when it mattered most. For well over a decade now.

[Richard Tanner]

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No. We only piss on his performaces in games where he gets knocked out of the playoffs. That's the whole point. He's All-Universe until it really matters, and be it against the Patriots, or at home in the 2nd round off a bye (this is the 2nd time he's blown one of *those*), he's all-scrub when the pressure is really on the line.

It's not that we aren't willing to give him credit for rocking in Week 6. It's just that we know what's waiting around the corner when things start to get hot and heavy.

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He did a bad job of blocking in this game, I agree. Manning's got to get to the line and seal off the oncoming linemen, push them away, then throw the ball.

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Yawwwwwwwwwwwwn. It's *never* his fault according to his defenders. The fact is that every one of the recent elimination games were eminently winnable if he has even an *average* game.

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Yawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwn, the exaggeration defense. Of course Manning takes a share of the blame, but saying things like "He's an awful QB" and "He can't play in the clutch" is just stupid. He played a decent game. Could he have played better? Sure. But again, there are others on the field after Manning. There's even a coach or two that helps.

Cody

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That's the whole point. All of their recent elimination games were winnable if he and he alone has an average game. That includes the D, the O-Line, the WR's and the RB. Change one variable, that being Manning's performance, and they win ALL of those games. If they lose by 30, your argument that it's everyone's fault has merit. But the fact remains that relative to his typical high standard, he has VASTLY underperformed when it mattered most. For well over a decade now.

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So by that logic, are they still winnable if, instead of Manning, the O-line steps up and blocks "decent", or if Reggie Wayne catches one jump ball in the endzone, or if the Defense plays "decent".

I think that's the point, place blame where it belongs. Coach Dungy, Manning, the O-line, the Defense, all had reason to share in the blame for thier loss. It isn't just Manning.

Cody

[THAY3R]

Wow, when Manning has an off game, the Colts lose. That is very keen insight there, tell me more.

[Clarkmeister]

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Wow, when Manning has an off game, the Colts lose. That is very keen insight there, tell me more.

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More? Ok. He always has his off games when it's in the playoffs sometime prior to the Super Bowl. Or against Florida.

[THAY3R]

He's always been on a team where he has to do very good in order for his team to win. So naturally, when he doesn't do awesome, its very difficult for his team to win, simple as that. Did Elway all of a sudden learn how to not choke, or did his team just get better?

[Clarkmeister]

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He's always been on a team where he has to do very good in order for his team to win. So naturally, when he doesn't do awesome, its very difficult for his team to win, simple as that. Did Elway all of a sudden learn how to not choke, or did his team just get better?

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He didn't need to do "very well" in order for them to have avoided elimination in recent years. He merely needed to perform "average".

Comparing his situation and Elway's is absurd. Elway carried talentless offensive units to the Super Bowl 3 times. The Colts, by comparison, have had all-world offensive talent surrounding Peyton. Take Elway off those teams and they might not even make the playoffs. Take Manning off his teams, and they might have won the Super Bowl. Is it likely, not necessarily. But it's certainly possible. And all one has to do is look at UT to see that it happened once already.

[Richard Tanner]

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He's always been on a team where he has to do very good in order for his team to win. So naturally, when he doesn't do awesome, its very difficult for his team to win, simple as that. Did Elway all of a sudden learn how to not choke, or did his team just get better?

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He didn't need to do "very well" in order for them to have avoided elimination in recent years. He merely needed to perform "average".

Comparing his situation and Elway's is absurd. Elway carried talentless offensive units to the Super Bowl 3 times. The Colts, by comparison, have had all-world offensive talent surrounding Peyton. Take Elway off those teams and they might not even make the playoffs. Take Manning off his teams, and they might have won the Super Bowl. Is it likely, not necessarily. But it's certainly possible. And all one has to do is look at UT to see that it happened once already.

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Wow why stop there, why not say that if they traded Manning for Brady, the Colts would've been 17-0 (after the NFL awarded them a extra win out of reverence) and 3 women per game in each crown would've been spontaniously impragnated by Tom Brady's essence.

This is getting good.

Cody

[THAY3R]

Ok, you're right. They should cut him.

And UT should have begged him to leave early.

[JaredL]

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He's always been on a team where he has to do very good in order for his team to win. So naturally, when he doesn't do awesome, its very difficult for his team to win, simple as that. Did Elway all of a sudden learn how to not choke, or did his team just get better?

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He didn't need to do "very well" in order for them to have avoided elimination in recent years. He merely needed to perform "average".

Comparing his situation and Elway's is absurd. Elway carried talentless offensive units to the Super Bowl 3 times. The Colts, by comparison, have had all-world offensive talent surrounding Peyton. Take Elway off those teams and they might not even make the playoffs. Take Manning off his teams, and they might have won the Super Bowl. Is it likely, not necessarily. But it's certainly possible. And all one has to do is look at UT to see that it happened once already.

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Wow why stop there, why not say that if they traded Manning for Brady, the Colts would've been 17-0 (after the NFL awarded them a extra win out of reverence) and 3 women per game in each crown would've been spontaniously impragnated by Tom Brady's essence.

This is getting good.

Cody

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You apparently missed the "is it likely, not necessarily. But it's certainly possible." The Colts without Manning but with a mediocre but not terrible QB would still have cruised to a division win and had a shot in the playoffs with a home game or even a bye in the first round (most likely a bye this year with NE, Cincy, and Pittsburgh all sputtering at times). By comparison those Denver teams without Elway would have not made the playoffs much less gotten their asses handed to them 55-10 by the 49ers.

Since you don't like these hypothetical scenarios I'll present another argument. Elway didn't choke in those Super Bowls. His team was clearly outmatched by the opposition. He may not have had excellent game but it didn't matter. Just the scores tell you enough:
XXIV SF 55 - 10 Denver
XXII Washington 42 - 10 Denver
XXI NYG 39 - 20 Denver

This last one (well the first one) was the only one that was close. Elway was 22-37 for 304 yards with a pick and a TD. Hardly choking. Furthermore, the Super Bowl isn't the only big game obviously. Elway had some ridiculous games, I'm specifically thinking of a couple against the Browns, to put his team into the Super Bowl. He was in no way a choker.

I'm somewhat biased here because I never really liked Elway (Montana was my boyhood hero) but he was in no way a choker.

[Steve00007]

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He's always been on a team where he has to do very good in order for his team to win. So naturally, when he doesn't do awesome, its very difficult for his team to win, simple as that. Did Elway all of a sudden learn how to not choke, or did his team just get better?

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He didn't need to do "very well" in order for them to have avoided elimination in recent years. He merely needed to perform "average".



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Manning performed better than average in the postseason coming into this game. Counting games against elite defenses and games in the snow, Manning had a qb rating of 89.2 coming into the game.