10/20 FR. TPTK vs Strassa

[pfkaok]

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Is a three bet here bad if we assume strassa is getting a little out of line?

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This really will depend on how "out of line" you think he's getting. If it's a lot, then an overbet push on this flop is of course going to be better than folding. However he's gotta be getting pretty far out of line for that to be correct. But if you think he might be CR'ing w/ total air alot then pushing must be better than folding, and probably better than calling. However, from what I know, I doubt strassa gets this much out of line (although i have never played with him)

[cero_z]

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toss it. strassr is not c/r KQ here, and his only other hand u beat is QJ,

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Definitely very wrong. However, you do need to fold here if you bet the flop and get raised this much (with so much still behind). If you know you're going to do this in advance, though, check the flop behind, or bet less.

JMan, might I recommend this .

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check this flop? half the deck sucks on the turn.

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You're thinking about this wrong if you think that makes it a mandatory bet. If you bet, and one of those cards comes off, you'll often be forced to fold, and you'll wish you hadn't bet. Keeping the pot small as long as you can will help you make less costly mistakes, and may entice your opponents to make more costly ones. Betting a lot here, which many (most) do, is a carryover from limit, and is very wrong, if you're up against tough players.

[captZEEbo]

i only read the title of the thread, but either allin or call allin.

[creedofhubris]

we have position, so the threat of being pushed off the hand should not bother us so much because we can check the turn.

[MDMA]

cero_z, I think the main problem with checking this flop is how you basically scream "I have a stronger hand than AA here zero percent of the time", and versus I guy like strasser who definately would pick up on this, I think he will be very prone to fire turn and if called only by OP, push pretty much any river without any two cards, and this WILL be profitable if he has good reason to believe that BB will not often interfer. The only thing working against strasser to do this is the fact that he has BB to worry about when betting turn in case flop went c/c/c.

Generally I just fold here given that he checkraised in a multiway pot. Had strasser been BB and sb had folded preflop, then, against a tricky player who will do this with air a lot of the time, I'd call a lot of the time and get it allin very often on any non-heart, non-k,non-8turn if he bets (which he will do a lot since he knows what your hand is kind of narrowed when cold-calling in this spot.) . He can definately give up some of the time on turn with air simply because he knows how intimidating that c/r on the flop looks (e.g, against any good player it's basically for stacks since OP would know strassa is gonna put it in on turn most of the time regardless of card, he doesn't gets explitable for villain in a way that villan can call flop and then get information about strasser on turn as long as he's checking a minorty of the times (where all checks can of course be air, that doesn't matter since it's the THREAT that the c/r on the flop (e.g I'm betting turn 00% of the time no matter the card) imposes that's what really matters, as long as OP knows strasser WILL be betting turn on a blank the vast majority of times, and as such, OP cannot really call to reconsider (if it blanks, that is). I mean, simply put: If you know that strasser is betting turn a vast majority of the times no matter his holding when c/ring like this and getting, then you simply have to decide whether you think your hand is ev+ vs his range that he c/r:s here with (made hands, draws/combodraws and air), and if turn blanks, then you understandably cannot fold if he bets but rather you must push.

[samoleus]

haven't read the responses, but I think you should call flop and:

1. bet enough to price him out of a draw and fold if raised
2. fold
3. call (you usually get free showdown once you call this bet unless he has a jack, in which case you can fold to a river bet)
4. fold
5. very tough decision: I lean towards a call against strassa, but this one is very very close.
6. fold (a lot of the hands that he might have been semibluffing with might contain a king which is why this is different from #3)

[samoleus]

a very good point, but I still prefer betting the flop and then gritting my teeth and making some tough decisions if raised. that being said, checking back the flop is by no means a mistake.