I remember.......

[Mr.K]

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when bonuswhores.com wasn't an outright shill zone, filled with a million blinking banners for sites I've never heard of.

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Because a site has banners to poker sites you've never heard of, that makes the site an "outright shill zone"? Just want to make sure I keep current on my definitions.

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I knew it wouldn't be long before you caught that, jek187. I don't mean to hate unnecessarily, but I think I have a point here. Not long ago, your site was clean & elegant. It posted the major bonuses available at the major sites. It had a forum for everything else. There was an air of independence about the views presented.

Nowadays, the site seems to be much more affiliate/"sales" oriented. It is now dominated by "Featured bonuses" (aka bonuses they paid you to advertise), a visually cluttered and very confusing layout, and so on. Hard for a regular joe like me to know for sure whether anything you've posted is based on unbiased information, or whether it is up there because someone paid you to post it.

The difference that really matters is this: I used to feel like BW was a rebel bunch of players seeking to squeeze the most out of the cardrooms. Now I feel, fairly or not, that the site is to a degree a tool of the cardrooms that may or may not be looking out for the players depending on the specific situation at hand. Above all, the site seems to be looking out for its own bottom line, rather than just serving as a forum for players to unite around the concept of maximizing bonuses.

I can't blame BW for securing new income streams, and making a buck or two. Anybody who takes the time and risk to run a site deserves that chance. I can safely say, however, that doing so represents a sea change from the earlier operation of the site. That's my point.

EDIT FOR FAIRNESS: The commercialization BW has gone through (or that I argue it has gone through) has affected countless other aspects of poker over the past few years, so they're hardly the only ones "guilty" on this count. The proliferation of ads and sponsorship of previously intependent poker blogs is another example of what I'm talking about. And let me be clear: I'm not making a value judgement, I'm just making an observation.

[jek187]

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Nowadays, the site seems to be much more affiliate/"sales" oriented. It is now dominated by "Featured bonuses" (aka bonuses they paid you to advertise), a visually cluttered and very confusing layout, and so on. Hard for a regular joe like me to know for sure whether anything you've posted is based on unbiased information, or whether it is up there because someone paid you to post it.

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Actually, we don't accept money for a bonus to be featured*. Each of the 17 exclusive bonuses we have on the front page, are there because those are offers that are not available to players who go through the poker site directly. The placement of the bonuses is determined by a completely objective formula (its parameters include size of the bonus, clear rate, and size of the room/network offering it.) We have turned down a lot of money in bribes (think upper five figures or possibly low six.) In fact, everything on the site is done in as objective manner as possible. If you (or anyone else) sees something on the site that seems out of whack, please bring it up to me, and I'll either apologize for an error, or explain why it is the way it is.

Our goal has always been to fairly represent what the sites are offering so that players can make the best choice possible as to where they play. I can certainly see your point that BW doesn't have a real rebel feel anymore. I believe this is more a function of large growth rather than us being a tool for the sites. In fact, we've used our popularity to get players better offers, and help them with disputes (Crazy Poker and Bet365 were both very active accounts for us, and they were both blacklisted until they fixed their issues with our players.)

The current layout of the front page is something that has been nagging at me for awhile. I agree that (especially for a newer player) it can be confusing. So, that's certainly a fair criticism, but it's not a symptom of us subjectively favoring one room or another.

*One site gave us a few hundred dollars as a thank you. However, that did not affect the site's presence, or placement on the front page.

[William]

Pardon me for interfeering Jek, but it was my impression that your site offer bonuses in exchange for a small insignificant click on your banners. A click that makes you an affiliate and ensures you a certain percentage of the rake of every player.
In other words, you are an affiliate that keeps all the rake.

If I am incorrect, please excuse my ignorance.

[GrannyMae]

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Pardon me for interfeering Jek, but it was my impression that your site offer bonuses in exchange for a small insignificant click on your banners. A click that makes you an affiliate and ensures you a certain percentage of the rake of every player.




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brilliant, huh?

[bennyhana]

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In other words, you are an affiliate that keeps all the rake.

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pwn

[jek187]

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Pardon me for interfeering Jek, but it was my impression that your site offer bonuses in exchange for a small insignificant click on your banners. A click that makes you an affiliate and ensures you a certain percentage of the rake of every player.
In other words, you are an affiliate that keeps all the rake.

If I am incorrect, please excuse my ignorance.

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Yes, this is true. But I should point out that since most bonuses are deducted from MGR, there often isn't much left over afterwards for us to "keep all the rake." Some of the rooms we list on our site have never generated a penny in revenue for us.

Thanks for your comments William, it's astute posters like you that help make the Zoo what it is.

[William]

Thanks for your comments William, it's astute posters like you that help make the Zoo what it is

Yes, I know that you'd rather have everybody thinking that your nice site is there exclusively to help the poor exploited players.

I hope you can survive with the " little that is left". (where are my tissues?) [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

[jek187]

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Thanks for your comments William, it's astute posters like you that help make the Zoo what it is

Yes, I know that you'd rather have everybody thinking that your nice site is there exclusively to help the poor exploited players.

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No, the goal of BW is of course to make money. The way we choose to do so however, is by providing the best information we can to the players.

[William]

the goal of BW is of course to make money. The way we choose to do so however, is by providing the best information we can to the players.

Now you're talking my language. With honesty. And yes, your site has always been one of the best to provide usefull information. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Mr.K]

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No, the goal of BW is of course to make money. The way we choose to do so however, is by providing the best information we can to the players.

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Fair enough. First off, thanks for responding thoughtfully. I'm glad to know that I was a little (maybe a lot!) off base about how a bonus because "featured." I had just assumed they paid you to do that.

Now, seems clear to me that there still is a financial incentive for you to list those bonuses (the affiliate payments they may generate if used), but the fact that you're being systematic about trying to benefit the players in the best way possible is a good thing.

Really, at the end of the day, transparency is what's key. If folks who use BW know the whole story, they'll be able to make the best use of the info you provide, and have some perspective on why some offers are pushed harder or more visibly than others. A lack of transparency, however, is something that has historically inhibited efficient markets from truly developing on the affiliate front, and the entrenched operators have (as I understand it) gone to great lengths to keep things non-transparent.