Internet Poker... doomed from Day 1

[MNpoker]

[ QUOTE ]
I've never played poker in a B&M casino but I imagine that if I brought in a notebook and started taking player notes I might get escorted from the building. Yet poker sites all have player note capabilities. These sites must be unethical!

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You absolutely would NOT be kicked out of a casino for this. Many players bring in notepads and make notes on what other players did (and their tendencies, etc.)

PT absolutely does a GREAT job of note taking and organizing. But it does not collect any data that you would not have access to in a B&M. (I will give you that you might get kicked out of a B&M for asking to see every players cards every hand)

Data-mining is completely different. I'll even agree that there is a grey area here. I happen to think it stops at Data-mining (you should not get HH's for hands you didn't play) and others will put that line somewhere else.

A on-line casino can have 'local' rules, just like a B&M can. If there is demand for a site that does not produce any HH's or show other players hole cards, I would guess one will eventually pop up. Personally I still feel there is a lower chance of getting cheated on-line vs. in a B&M (maybe I'm naive).

[Borgland]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I've never played poker in a B&M casino but I imagine that if I brought in a notebook and started taking player notes I might get escorted from the building. Yet poker sites all have player note capabilities. These sites must be unethical!

[/ QUOTE ]

You absolutely would NOT be kicked out of a casino for this. Many players bring in notepads and make notes on what other players did (and their tendencies, etc.)

PT absolutely does a GREAT job of note taking and organizing. But it does not collect any data that you would not have access to in a B&M. (I will give you that you might get kicked out of a B&M for asking to see every players cards every hand)

Data-mining is completely different. I'll even agree that there is a grey area here. I happen to think it stops at Data-mining (you should not get HH's for hands you didn't play) and others will put that line somewhere else.

A on-line casino can have 'local' rules, just like a B&M can. If there is demand for a site that does not produce any HH's or show other players hole cards, I would guess one will eventually pop up. Personally I still feel there is a lower chance of getting cheated on-line vs. in a B&M (maybe I'm naive).

[/ QUOTE ]

Raymer was shown on TV writing notes during the WSOP ME.

[PlayaHata]

to people who advocate PT. please explain the difference, in your opinion, why using PT is ethical compared to using a BOT, which i would hope is unethical.

[MNpoker]

[ QUOTE ]
to people who advocate PT. please explain the difference, in your opinion, why using PT is ethical compared to using a BOT, which i would hope is unethical.

[/ QUOTE ]

I love that you posted this AFTER several posters already answered the question.

Are you reading the thread or just randomly posting?

P.S. Do you think the 2+2 Forums should be illegal as well? I use a computer to access them and I believe it's helped my game.

[PlayaHata]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
to people who advocate PT. please explain the difference, in your opinion, why using PT is ethical compared to using a BOT, which i would hope is unethical.

[/ QUOTE ]

I love that you posted this AFTER several posters already answered the question.

Are you reading the thread or just randomly posting?

P.S. Do you think the 2+2 Forums should be illegal as well? I use a computer to access them and I believe it's helped my game.

[/ QUOTE ]

no one has given a definate argument to why the believe PT is ethical as compared to a bot. and if i thought 2+2 was unethical i wouldnt be posting. if you dont have anything to contribute to the discussion besides your lame attempt to make jokes and make yourself laugh, why dont you go post in OOT. thanks.

[ShakeZula06]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
to people who advocate PT. please explain the difference, in your opinion, why using PT is ethical compared to using a BOT, which i would hope is unethical.

[/ QUOTE ]

I love that you posted this AFTER several posters already answered the question.

Are you reading the thread or just randomly posting?

P.S. Do you think the 2+2 Forums should be illegal as well? I use a computer to access them and I believe it's helped my game.

[/ QUOTE ]

no one has given a definate argument to why the believe PT is ethical as compared to a bot. and if i thought 2+2 was unethical i wouldnt be posting. if you dont have anything to contribute to the discussion besides your lame attempt to make jokes and make yourself laugh, why dont you go post in OOT. thanks.

[/ QUOTE ]

read my post and tell me how I didn't tear your arguement in half

[PlayaHata]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
to people who advocate PT. please explain the difference, in your opinion, why using PT is ethical compared to using a BOT, which i would hope is unethical.

[/ QUOTE ]

I love that you posted this AFTER several posters already answered the question.

Are you reading the thread or just randomly posting?

P.S. Do you think the 2+2 Forums should be illegal as well? I use a computer to access them and I believe it's helped my game.

[/ QUOTE ]

no one has given a definate argument to why the believe PT is ethical as compared to a bot. and if i thought 2+2 was unethical i wouldnt be posting. if you dont have anything to contribute to the discussion besides your lame attempt to make jokes and make yourself laugh, why dont you go post in OOT. thanks.

[/ QUOTE ]

read my post and tell me how I didn't tear your arguement in half

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if you dont realize that my post is more then PT, then you are a complete moron and i would like it if you didnt post anymore to ruin the validity of my post. that is all, cartoon boy.

[MNpoker]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
to people who advocate PT. please explain the difference, in your opinion, why using PT is ethical compared to using a BOT, which i would hope is unethical.

[/ QUOTE ]

I love that you posted this AFTER several posters already answered the question.

Are you reading the thread or just randomly posting?

P.S. Do you think the 2+2 Forums should be illegal as well? I use a computer to access them and I believe it's helped my game.

[/ QUOTE ]

no one has given a definate argument to why the believe PT is ethical as compared to a bot. and if i thought 2+2 was unethical i wouldnt be posting. if you dont have anything to contribute to the discussion besides your lame attempt to make jokes and make yourself laugh, why dont you go post in OOT. thanks.

[/ QUOTE ]

I did respond to you and give reasons why it's ethical as have SEVERAL other poster. Then you post 'No one has given a reason'. Why should we make any more serious responses? You aren't reading them.

[PlayaHata]

I am sorry MNpoker, i did not see your post about PT. I was probably typing a response to barcley at the time you posted. I was also defedning myself from complete morons that wont have a discussion but would rather have a bashing. anyway to your post,

you agree that data mining is in the grey area, but doesnt PT keep track of ALL HH that you have had with an opponent? i was under the impression that any information in your HH was readily availbale to PT and could display said stats as soon as an opponent sat at your table. if this is true, it is close to the same thing as data mining. although you did gather the data, it is no humanely possible for a person that doesnt use PT to remember stats from an opponent from 7 months back.

[betadecay]

[ QUOTE ]
to people who advocate PT. please explain the difference, in your opinion, why using PT is ethical compared to using a BOT, which i would hope is unethical.

[/ QUOTE ]

The big difference is that one is legal and the other is not. Again the environment is different. If a site said we allow colluding, you would then have a very different form of poker being played on that site. Tables would be comprised of teams figuring out odds and roi using several cards, and figuring out the best way to get the most money from other teams. This would still be poker, and it would not be unethical. It would just be a different variation (also I think this would be really fun).

PT is software we are allowed to use in the online environment. Poker bots are not. Using a Poker bot is unethical because you are participating in a practice that breaks the rules of the online environment. I think that instead of saying "PT is unethical", you should say "I don't like online play because it allows the use of PT".