Internet Poker... doomed from Day 1

[slim]

I disagree with you Playa. All online players can have access to PT. Just because u don't know about it or can't afford it or choose not to use it, it's not anyone else's fault. It's like if I were at B&M and I wear sunglasses because I don't want people to get reads off me or so that I can see other people without them knowing I anm studying them......is that unethical? Everyone has access to sunglasses but not everyone chooses to use them. I know LOTS of people who have PT but still cannot win because their level of understanding of the game is not high enough to allow them to make the best possible decisions even with PT stats.

I've seen people at B&M take notes with notepads and pen.....is that unethical?

By your logic, someone who has a photgraphic memory is exploiting those who do not.I don't have photographic memory and so someone who does, has information not available to me.

And the rules of online poker allows for programs like PT....so it's case closed. They don't allow datamining anymore (Party)but still allow PT so that tells u that it is not unethical. I guess it's like steroids in sports....if MLB says steroids are allowed, then it's not cheating. If they say it's not allowed and a player uses it, then it's cheating. We're just playing by the rules.

[davehwm]

[ QUOTE ]
And the rules of online poker allows for programs like PT....so it's case closed.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not allowed to believe something isn't ethical just because Party Poker believes it is?

[PlayaHata]

a pair of sunglasses cannot help you make an educated guess at your opponents holdings based on hands played/ aggression/ steal%, etc. although your anology is close, it does not make total sense.

PT gives the user an unfair advantage over a player not using PT. as a user you must be able to atest to the times that PT has helped your bankroll.

just because party poker says you can use PT does not make it ethical. taking note on a notepad is not allowed in casinos, but allowed on the internet. the rule 1 hand 1 person is not enforced in online poker, does it make it okay to collude with another player?

[slim]

what is the difference if a tool helps u calculate agression etc or whether it helps u hide tells/get tells? It is an advantage that helps someone win if they know how to use it. Just bc sunglasses don't "calculate" anything doesn't mean it can't give u an edge.

And I have definitely seen people write on a notepad during play at BM. I never looked at what they are writing so I can't be sure if they are making notes on opponents but if it were not allowed, I am sure the Floor person would ask to see what they were writing.

[piki]

PokerTracker is far from AI. It merely provides you data, condensed and easily accessible. What you do with that data is entirely up to you. I believe that this is the key point - you should make each and every decision on your own. That implies that helper programs you use do not produce some numbers/symbols from which one could directly deduce the 'right' decision. Simple statistics available from PT database are far from such level of sophistication.

So PT is generally recognized as ethical and acceptable. Used correctly, it can provide one with advantage over the other player, but why would that be so unfair it could be considered unethical? One person may be smarter than the other, it's not fair, but is being smarter unethical? You have to draw the line somewhere.

Actually, the line's been more or less drawn already. It's in T&Cs of online casinos. PT is ok, bots and other AI is not ok, colluding and other types of cheating not ok. Wether you like it or not is completely up to you. But the message you're trying to send out in public is quite off. Internet gambling is definitely not doomed.

-pix