Why you guys aren't crushing these Microlimit games...

[SpaceAce]

[ QUOTE ]
Flop: (9 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, UTG+1 checks, <font color="CC3333">MP3 bets</font>, Hero calls, SB folds, UTG+1 folds.

*The old me folds this flop. But I have top pair and a backdoor. I don't think I'm ahead but I'm going to see the river because Majorkong said not to fold top pair.


[/ QUOTE ]

I think the new you needs to raise this flop, not call.

SpaceAce

[rjc199]

explain raising this flop, especially when I'm bet into by a pre-flop raiser and I don't like my kicker? I don't see this sort of play advocated in any 2+2 book.

[Dids]

"But I have top pair and a backdoor."

I think you said it yourself.

Low levels, folks with raise with anything. Absent of a read, I'd re-raise this too, if he fires back, then I go into check call.

[Felipe]

[ QUOTE ]
"But I have top pair and a backdoor."...Low levels, folks with raise with anything.

[/ QUOTE ]
Hello. I have read this posting by ed Miller up to this post (above), so I don't know if this has been answered below. I don't know even remember if this has been answered above. The moral presented in this entire posting is that one should be betting (raising???) with top pair (despite weak kicker). Also included in the logic is the fact of a backdoor flush possibility for "hero". Does this only apply with a pair of A's, or does it apply with ANY top pair onthe flop (eg. you have 79 and the board comes 923)? Should I be betting from early pos. and raising in mid or late pos? Or betting in last position if it has been checked to me? (lets say for example that my 79 was free in cutoff by paying a live big blind).

[uDevil]

Some arguments for raising in this spot:
1) You might get a free card.
2) You might force weak draws to fold, possibly saving the pot for you if you are ahead.
3) You might win the pot right here (which might well have happened in this case).

[Ed Miller]

I don't see this sort of play advocated in any 2+2 book.

Just wait a couple of months... [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[Clarkmeister]

[ QUOTE ]
explain raising this flop, especially when I'm bet into by a pre-flop raiser and I don't like my kicker? I don't see this sort of play advocated in any 2+2 book.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sklansky talks about it in some of his essays IIRC.

[Ed Miller]

explain raising this flop, especially when I'm bet into by a pre-flop raiser and I don't like my kicker?

Ok. Here's the point. You should often avoid "easily dominated" hands before the flop, especially against a raiser. You are trying to avoid trouble, making a cautious fold WHEN THE POT IS STILL SMALL.

Once you decide to see the flop (which you DEFINITELY should with your A8s in this hand), you simply cannot play in fear of the worst. If you flop top pair, you still have a potentially dominated hand, but now THE POT IS BIG! There is nothing you can do about it at this point, you just have to hope your hand is best and protect your share of the pot by raising out opponents with weak draws.

The size of the pot dictates how you play your hand. When the pot is small, making cautious folds is often correct. When the pot is large (which it is once it is raised preflop in this case), you MUST PROTECT YOUR HAND... you have to gamble. You have too much to lose if you play cautiously.

BTW, folding in this situation is ABSOLUTELY TERRIBLE. It is an enormous error. I'm glad you fixed that leak. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] But now you have to start playing more aggressively.

[rjc199]

excellent.

So let me try to clarify something. I should be more aggressive with a mediocre hand when the pot is big? This helps to get long shots out and preserve the pot incase my hand is good?

Does my strategy change when it gets heads up on the river? Meaning, should I not be as aggresive if I know I'm going to get called?

[Dids]

I think part of the issue is that the hand you described isn't really mediocre. It's not the nuts- but it could very well be the winning hand and it's got out to a better hand. .