AC-ism in history?

[Vagos]

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PVN,

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Everyone agrees that personal initiation of violence is -MV.

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This certainly isn't true. e.g. http://www.csmonitor.com/2007/0223/p09s01-coop.html

'The survey, conducted in December 2006 by the University of Maryland's prestigious Program on International Public Attitudes, shows that only 46 percent of Americans think that "bombing and other attacks intentionally aimed at civilians" are "never justified," while 24 percent believe these attacks are "often or sometimes justified."'

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You should read more carefully if you're going to waste time digging up polling stats that don't apply to someone's statement. Unless those polled are the ones flying across the world to bomb civilians, we can throw this one out.

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Take a more personal example. You're standing in a group of people talking on your mobile phone at a bus stop. A woman collapses clutching her chest, apparently having a heart attack. The people there ask you to use your mobile to phone for an ambulance. If you refuse then most people will agree that they're justified in taking it from you, violently if necessary.

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Notice that when pvn says "everyone", he clearly does not mean the very small percentage of people who murder, steal and rape on a personal level. I would guess this is about the same percentage of people that would flat out refuse to dial 9-1-1 for someone who is dying right in front of them. So we can dispense with the highly unlikely and outright ridiculous hypotheticals too.