ZeeJustin the next to get caught multi accounting Party MTTs

[silversurfer]

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I find many of the moral condemnation posts completely unbelievable. Look at the situation: this is a teenager, who has two choices:

1: Make hundreds of thousands of dollars extra by "cheating," an activity that has no legal ramifications at all. The worst that will happen to you is some of your money will get taken away and you will be flamed on an internet message board.

2: Make less money honestly.

When the difference between 1 and 2 is hundreds of thousands of dollars, I find it entirely unsurprising that ZJ would pick #1. Most of us have never been put in this situation, but I would imagine that a great many would also pick #1.

I agree with everyone who said that it's unethical. I especially agree with what ElD said about being harsh on those who cheat. I agree with everyone who said his response was poor. However, I challenge people to say to me with a straight face that it is not entirely understandable what ZJ did.

It's worthless to take the holier than thou attitude until you've been faced with the temptation and have overcome it.

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And I am getting equally disgusted with all of this "nature vs. nurture/evils of temptation" babble (which unfortunately seems to be a subtle undercurrent in many of these posts) that this thread has taken, as if poor defenseless ZJ was never shown the difference between what is and isn't right. Do any of you deny that this is cheating? If you do, do us all a favor and take up another hobby/livelihood. Resist temptation my ass. Not only is this cheating, but in a way, you are also stealing money - and ultimately more importantly, time - from people which will NEVER be replaced. When did you all learn that cheating and stealing was wrong? I would hope at a very young age.

I (and thousands of others) reject it because it is wrong. You can paint this up with eloquent discussion all you want, but it all boils down to that in the end.

I'm not attacking you (or anyone else), but I feel very strongly about this and don't like what this tangent portends. I don't feel that there should be any message of sympathy sent here - and it's now coming from some of the most respected posters on the site:

Diablo, I am quite clear as to how you feel about this debacle, but can you clarify what you mean by these quotes? It looks like a contradiction to me:

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I think you are at heart a good kid, just ethically challenged.
but moreso just someone with a somewhat hazy moral compass

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Ethically challenged? Again, for the cheap seats - I know you do not support what happened here (and I marvel at your wit, by the way). But "ethically challenged"? "hazy moral compass?" Cheating, stealing, arrogance, and (apparently immense amounts of) greed aren't the marks of someone with a "hazy moral compass".

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He doesn’t get it, but you are ignorant for blaming him for this.

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Why? Who is to blame, Jason? His parents? His mischievous friends growing up? I couldn't disagree with you more. You are all willing to say how intelligent he is - why do you infer this decision was beyond his control? He already has the skill to win tens of thousands of dollars, yet his greed drove him to push the edges. Had he shown any remorse, I would be inclined to show a little more compassion. All I see is arrogant drivel from someone whose only regret was that they were caught.

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And when you have a venue where teenagers get idolized for a simple card game and turn down college and a chance to grasp a hold of fundamental principals by experiencing world experiences, ZeeJustin and JJProdigy are among the things you get.

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Boo-f'ng-hoo. I think the condemnation and villification are well-deserved here.

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Lastly though, Im fairly disgusted by the attitude of many posters.

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Same stuff I've been saying applies. But Mike, then you contradict yourself with

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Damn straight he deserves condemnation.

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Again: This is not an attack. But it seems to be a glaring contradiction.

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Like Strasser said though, what do you expect from an environment where anybody with a certain skill set (really they dont have to be that good) can pull down 100k when they are 16-19 years old. Im only 22, so its rediculous for me to talk about life experience...but by going through college you continue to put yourself in situations (both social and academic) that make you define yourself as a person, ethically, morally, psychologically, randomotherly. When you make this amount of money before going through that experience (so other harsher more practical life experience) it is unsurprising that you end up with kids who's moral compass is underdeveloped.


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But like you said - you're young, and you're not a cheat. You think it's wrong. What's his excuse? The next person to defend him on the grounds of having a weak "moral compass" is getting a noogie. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

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Im very happy that ZJ got busted, but I feel bad for him. I don't feel bad because he lost his money, I feel bad because he so clearly doesnt get it.

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Now THIS is a good point. All that (supposed) intellect, and he stands behind what he has done. Mind-boggling.

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there is a substantial difference between corporate theft and multiaccounting. I think you can figure that out.

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He made a damned good analogy. Your rebuttal is worthless.

ZJ, I don't think you are evil. But all this flak you are taking here is because you present yourself as an unrepentant, arrogant, greedy little shyt. Secondly, see El D's post about the responsibility of well-known players like yourself.
I am ecstatic that you lost the $100k, and wish it was far more. Do you know why? Because you don't seem to grasp the magnitude of what you have done. I can tell you from personal experience that the best lessons you learn are the ones that kick you in the ass the hardest, and $100k probably isn't much of a loss to you anymore.
I bet all the tea in China you are back to this within 60 days, and I shudder to think how many other people are going to waste money and time playing with your next incarnation.
Woodguy said it best - I hope you grow up someday.

For the record, I would direct this venom at anyone who cheats. Dutch Boyd, Doyle Brunson, Mother Theresa. This is a huge problem, and I hope this online crucifixion serves to flush out as many cheats as possible from this game.
As several pros have said in this thread: Screw anyone who is going out of their way to rob me of my money and time. I hope they get more of you mf's.

Finally:

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Hey ZJ,

Would love your input on the following common tourney situation.

Late-middle stages of tourney. Blinds 150/300. Avg stack 6,500. I'm UTG w/ 4,000 and 33. I'm also in CO w/ 10,000 and QTs.

What is optimal strategy here?

What do you have in the BB?

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These posts won the thread.