Was Hachem being unethical?

[El Diablo]

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As far as the players at the table besides Minh Ly, Lee Watkinson, and myself are concerned, the talk might as well be a nod because they can't benefit from the information.

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Well, in this spot. I meant in a more general fashion, if Hachem is talking to Lee (or anyone) in this manner, the other players involved in the different hands will all have opportunities to take advantage of this information. I don't want to belabor this point, though, I obviously understand your concern.

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But something with this whole situation doesn't sit right with me. I really wish some of you could see it

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Yeah, that of course is the issue here. I mean, I have no reason to disbelieve anything you are saying. However, maybe Lee and Hachem are acquaintances but not friends? If that's the case, maybe Hachem was going one level up and trying to talk Lee into a call in a spot where the raise itself was going to get him to fold QQ? If Lee had called, your read on the whole situation is quite different, right? Again, impossible to speak intelligently on this specific spot without being there.

As for the saving chips comment, that's a pretty serious accusation. I mean, you are still at 10 players in a very top-heavy structure. How much is Hachem costing himself by getting Lee to fold?

I think it comes down to this simple question.

If you were in Lee's spot, would Hachem want you to do the same thing as he wants Lee to do?

If the answer is yes, then I have no problem w/ Hachem doing anything possible to get his desired result.

If the answer is no, he wants Lee to fold and stay alive, but wants you to call and get your chips in bad, well then it seems both unethical and stupid on Hachem's part. In fact, it would even perhaps imply that he and Lee have some other reason to not want each other knocked out.