Bots in PartyPoker's 6-max Limit games?

[Jake (The Snake)]

Mr. Rick,

Thanks for the response. Hopefully some more people with CS experience can add some more ideas.

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Ideas to combat bots:
1) Identify potential bot players and their corollary statistics and publish as you have already done. This should start a collaborative effort to get a complete list on all sites based on the statistical and timing signature of the potential bots.


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Possible idea. The problem I see with this is that bot users could just check the list and change their screen name when they see that they are on it.

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2) Think video/computer games. Understand their algorithms, and find their weaknesses. This may require private collaboration (i.e., get trusted bot haters and send private e-mails, because public posts would be easy to spot by bot owners and would eliminate financial punishment). Though I think it would be much easier to post like you have been doing. Collectively I think there is tremendous wisdom here.


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Firstly, I think it will be hard to beat the algorithms of the better bots. This may be an ok idea, but winning money from the bots shouldn't really be our primary goal. Making a bot go broke in a few sessions will be almost impossible if the bot is any good at all due to the randomness of the cards.

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4) If HU or 3-way is the best way to beat them - then alert other innocent human players via on-line chat that a bot is playing at the table (and name the bot) and that should incent the humans to leave. Then destroy the bots.


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HU or 3-way might be easier, but it will be hard to figure that out if the bots don't play HU or 3-way.

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5) When implementing counter offensive strategies, we must be vigilant not to play 2 or more of us at the same table - even if we are not consciously colluding. Because we will know the proper "bot" counter strategy and we may be able to infer the other 2+2ers cards by their betting. Then we would be no better than the bot owners.


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Yep. This is a big problem.

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6) if a counter strategy cannot be formulated or cannot bring the bots to their knees (i.e., force their removal by their owners), then ask support of all 2+2ers to "out" them on-line via chat - at every possible opportunity. Most other human players will leave the tables immediately and the 2+2er can just sit out. The sites themselves will be devestated by the loss of games. They may try to stop our chats - but if they did that, I would assume that the internet forums would explode with posts and backlash at that site would be crippling. Eventually sites would see that in the current 2006/2007 timeframe, they will lose all of their business if they don't start acting proactively. Part of this strategy may be to alert the sites of the bot player names as well - so that they will stop the bot players ASAP. Within a very few incidents, I predict that sites will start acting very very proactively.


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The poker sites are probably going to have to be the ones to do something eventually, but I don't see how table chat could get us there. All human players aren't going to leave the table and even if they do, they will just go to another table. Poker is an addicting game. The sites will not feel a pinch if they lose a table or two.


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8) Also create a bot freindly poker site - possibly for profit - that welcomes and encourages bot playing. It would be interesting to see the debate on whether hole card sharing should be disallowed... Since it is hard to effectively police, maybe it is more efficient to allow it. Perhaps, with a legal and ethical alternative many bot owners wouldn't even try to invade non-bot sites (or at least the 2+2 non-bot site).


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Some chess sites do something similar to this. The problem here is that we play for money, and there is no guarantee that bot owners will be willing to label themselves as bot users.

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******* Other observation *******

Ray Bornert is providing us with extraordinary insight into the bot world. I for one am grateful for his perserverence on this thread. Why are we not treating him like we would a fish (no offense meant Ray)? I would never insult a fish, lest he go away. We should be thanking Ray for playing with us, whatever we may think of him.

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Yes, but he is getting information from us here too. A number of other people who have posted in this thread are also clearly bot-users who lurk 2+2 for info and strategies.