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  #23  
Old 10-01-2006, 01:03 AM
cbloom cbloom is offline
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Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: communist
Posts: 8,940
Default Re: I dont know how to play mid pairs

[ QUOTE ]

I think that cbloom is missing the idea that he will indeed fold preflop sometimes so we get value in reraising and sometimes he will call preflop and fold to our cbet so thats also very profitable.


[/ QUOTE ]

Umm, of course I'm not missing that, and that's awesome, but that works just as well with 23o.

Also Kilillan of course he calls *preflop* with much more than JJ+. My question is how can you *show down* TT and win. I don't know how I'm not being clear.

Kilillan so far as I can see what you're saying is "Your hand is probably best, and he will probably fold, so you should bet/raise". I think that's very simplistic/incorrect thinking which is not taking into account his calling range and situations on future streets. Correct if that's not what you're saying. However, lots of winning players seem to think that way. It's almost like aggression does magic things to make you win and I'm trying to understand that better.

Anyway, think of it this way :

Button opens, you're in the BB, you reraise with XX.
Button will usually fold, okay.
Say he calls, flop is whatever.
You cbet.
Usually he folds, okay, you make money.
But this time he calls.
Turn is whatever.

What now? You've represented a very strong hand. Say you check, he pots it. Holy big pot you need a big hand to continue.

Maybe you don't check - you bet pot.
Is that a bluff or a value bet?
Unless you have a very very big hand, it's a bluff.

I would say that if "XX" is "TT" that's a bluff on the turn, and it pretty much may as well be 23o.

It's well known from the Shania concept that you should play very hard with your very best hands (your hands which are not bluffs) and also with the very best hands that you would otherwise have folded (perhaps something like 67s here). Your other hands you should not play like bluffs.

Anyway, I still feel rather lost when I play a hand here not as a bluff and not just for set value, so whatever.
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