Internet Poker... doomed from Day 1

[PlayaHata]

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I don't know if most 2p2ers agree. I don't base my opinons on what the group thinks, I base them MY DEFINITION of logic.

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and this where the problem lays. certain players will continue to find the 'next big program' to give them the edge, even if its the slightest edge. and thus, players will continue to use different programs that are altering the game of poker and since no one has the same definition of ethics or the same logic, what i may consider to be unethical and unfair you fine completely fair and ethical. so when that new program comes out that can make judgements on what a player holds based on statistical evidence of player profiling that IS allowed by party, many people in this thread would get the program ASAP. because, as you said, it is not a matter of ethics, as definitions are subjective, but what is allowed by the site and what is beneficial to oneself. THIS is the future of online poker.

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See your using a slippery slope arguement. For one, you could not create a program that can find through stats exactly what an opponent holds. Do to Random distribution, stats not based on extensive data mining are not that reliable. A players VPIP over 40 hands is not solid eough to conclude his true VPIP, let alone the hand he holds in a particular situation. See: mike Caros Concept of Loose Wiring, which states that the same player, in the same exact situtation (same position, cards, opponents, chip stack, stakes, mood, everything) can and will make different actions in some situations. That is undetectable from HUD stats. You are not playing a robot (and if your playing WinHoldem, then good for you, the average player is +EV against it).

As for the program you are describing, it can not exist, unless your playing against a bot. People will not play a set system postflop and those that follow hand charts for preflop play rarely play exactly as the chart is.

There are many people on this forum that believe HUDs are usless, as it doesn't give you that helpful of stats. While I disagree, it is not that big of a boost.

So what if more software comes out. It's coevoultion, competetion, free market capilatism, take your pick. If I believe a program that PP deems legal and I don't agree with it (such as say they allowed hacking a computer to see your cards) I would leave the site. however comparing that to HUDs with very incomplete general info over a short span of time is not a computer telling you exactly what the correct move is.

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my example was just that, an example. you are arguing against a program that doesnt exist. what i am saying is that as new programs come out that are more sophisticated but are crossing the line in ethical and fair and with the fact that humans are by nature self interested, we will be faced with the inevitable degradation of internet poker.

players, due to their subjective definitions of ethics, morals, and fairness, will continue to use whatever means necessary to gain an edge over their competition. this has been shown throughout the history of internet poker, through the planetpoker card mapping, multi accounts on MTTs, and bots. (although bots now are mediocre at best, over time they will become more sophisticated) this is my problem with programs such as PT and PA HUD, although they may be fair in some eyes and are allowed by certain cites, these program developers and the users of such programs will continue the push for better 'tools' and getting that edge. so that the future of internet poker will have less and less human involvement and more and more computer involvement. do you see what i am saying?

im glad we are having a more civilized conversation today.