Internet Poker... doomed from Day 1

[Our House]

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Quick questions for those who say "it's available to everyone"....

A few months ago, there was a well known site (I forgot the name) that was looking to implement HUDs into their software for all players to have. What do you think of that? Yay or Nay? I would assume Nay.

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This wouldn't really matter much. Bad players will make no sense of stats. Good players will. Bad players will not become good players because they see their VPIP is 40.

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Hi Betadecay,

I'm quoting this because it is directly related to the OP. Too many in this thread have skirted the issue with tangents. I'm also guilty of this sidetracking.

OP was referring to the impact of software on online poker. He mistakenly mentioned PokerTracker and later clarified that it wasn't PT itself, but the consequencial programs that feed off of it. HUDs are just part of that. I see that Josh had also replied to this thread.

As a side note to Josh:
I don't begrudge you, your product, your support, or your efforts. You deserves every penny you make and then some.

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Bad players will make no sense of stats. Good players will.

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This is really where the discrepancy lies between posters. It's not as cut and dry as bad players/good players. There are many levels in between. Allow me to explain.....

When it comes to in-play software (HUDs are the best example, although there are others), everyone benefits differently. As a general rule, (forget individual cases and how people interpret information for a second) on average; the better you play, the less software tools will benefit you. There is much less room for improvement when you approach the winrate ceiling.

For example, on average HUDs can:

- Make a 1BB loser into a breakeven player.
- Make a breakeven player into a 0.75BB winner.
- Make a 1BB winner into a 1.5BB winner.
- Make a 2BB winner into a 2.25BB winner.
- Make a 3BB winner into a 3.1BB winner.

The reason this happens is because the poker learning curve is NOT symmetrical. There is a [censored]-ton of more room for improvement when you are a 1BB loser than there is when you are a 3BB winner. HUDs, among other aids, will help bridge the winrate gap and are therefore acting as an equalizer. The learning curve slows down considerably when you get to the top. In-play software tools are clearly a detriment to better players. Those who don't realize this are either missing the math or are part of the breakeven/losing crowd.

FWIW, I don't claim to be the best poker player. I have been playing for 13 years total and a little over 3 years online. I was a 1.5BB winner before any Pokertracker add-on tools existed. I can also use these tools to catch up to 3BB winners, but the numbers game won't allow me to benefit. There are soooo many more breakeven players than there are 3BB winners, and I'm positive that these tools are hurting my earn rather than boosting it. If sites don't do something about things, the future can only become worse. I see no reason that a player who's only playing for 6 months should be anywhere close to as good as I am just because his friend gave him a mined database and he spent $80 on PT/PA. No reason at all. He may not be better than me or have an edge over me, but I'd still like to call that an unfair advantage.

Issues of T&C, morals, ethics, etc. aren't relevant to OP's argument. They only exist as justifiable defenses to each person's stance on using tools. None of that changes the FACT that the best poker players are better off without aids and the not-so-good, but decent players aren't. Because, after all, the game we're playing IS poker.