The Ant and the Blade of Grass

[Lestat]

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I'm winding down in what I have to say about the topic of religion and God. I'm not sure there's been a single believer who has been convinced otherwise on this forum, despite the abundant wealth of logic which has been offered in refutation. I'm not sure anything can or will be solved in such debates.

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I was a Christian when I started reading this forum and I am now an atheist. I know of at least a couple others with similar experiences to mine based on the knowledge gained in this forum.

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I'm curious why? What was said here that you didn't think of before? Or is it that you just never thought about it before? That was the case with me. I was like 19 before I allowed myself to think about whether I really believed all the Christian stuff taught to me as a kid. Of course, you know what I concluded and I was in shock for a few days afterward.

[Hopey]

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I'm winding down in what I have to say about the topic of religion and God. I'm not sure there's been a single believer who has been convinced otherwise on this forum, despite the abundant wealth of logic which has been offered in refutation. I'm not sure anything can or will be solved in such debates.

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I was a Christian when I started reading this forum and I am now an atheist. I know of at least a couple others with similar experiences to mine based on the knowledge gained in this forum.

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I'm curious why? What was said here that you didn't think of before? Or is it that you just never thought about it before? That was the case with me. I was like 19 before I allowed myself to think about whether I really believed all the Christian stuff taught to me as a kid. Of course, you know what I concluded and I was in shock for a few days afterward.

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I was an atheist before I started reading the board, but not a strong one. I had been raised Roman Catholic, so there was plenty of guilt when I decided to stop going to church, and to cease practicing my family's religion. Reading posts on this forum from other atheists re-affirmed the doubts that had lead me to stop believing in god, or at least why I came to believe that if there is a god, god cannot be pigeon-holed into the beliefs of a man-made religion.

However, what really tipped the scales for me is reading the posts by the theists on this board. They convinced me once and for all that I am not interested in buying what they're pushing.

[hexag1]

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I'm winding down in what I have to say about the topic of religion and God. I'm not sure there's been a single believer who has been convinced otherwise on this forum, despite the abundant wealth of logic which has been offered in refutation. I'm not sure anything can or will be solved in such debates.

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I was a Christian when I started reading this forum and I am now an atheist. I know of at least a couple others with similar experiences to mine based on the knowledge gained in this forum.

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WOW. really. Congratulations. <- I REALLY don't mean that to sound condescending.
Has it been tough? I know some two people who have lost their faith, and they say it was hard (they were really devout catholics). Was there a noticeable turning point? A discussion here? a book perhaps? I'm very curious.

[NotReady]

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However, what really tipped the scales for me is reading the posts by the theists on this board. They convinced me once and for all that I am not interested in buying what they're pushing.


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When you make a general statement like that it makes me pretty certain your mind was already made up and you have filtered what was said to give you your rationale. I don't doubt that I haven't stated it well but me and a few others are the only ones here - I suggest that if you have any genuine beefs with what we've said you should consider how likely that will equate to a legitimate excuse.

[Lestat]

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However, what really tipped the scales for me is reading the posts by the theists on this board. They convinced me once and for all that I am not interested in buying what they're pushing.


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When you make a general statement like that it makes me pretty certain your mind was already made up and you have filtered what was said to give you your rationale. I don't doubt that I haven't stated it well but me and a few others are the only ones here - I suggest that if you have any genuine beefs with what we've said you should consider how likely that will equate to a legitimate excuse.

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I'm pretty sure that he's talking more about people like siegfriedandroy, txag, and godboy, than people like you. These guys seem to make it up as they go without even attempting to provide any rationale for what they spew.

What I'm trying to say is that if I were a Christian in doubt, I'd find your posts comforting, while finding seigfriedandroy a perfect example of why I have doubts in the first place. His nonsensical tirades make it clear that you don't want to be thinking like him.

[tpir]

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I'm not sure there's been a single unbeliever who has been convinced otherwise on this forum, despite the abundant wealth of logic which has been offered in refutation. I'm not sure anything can or will be solved in such debates.

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That was probably a wrong statement for me to make. My own mind has been changed on several things concerning religion (if anything, I'm more tolerant). I also think (although I could be wrong), that this forum has made you take a closer look at the accuracy of evolution.

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I was already agnostic when I found this forum. Catholicism has a way of making one a non-believer if they pay enough attention in Sunday School. My favorite moment during CCD training was when a priest told me I would be better off not asking so many questions about my faith. lol, fat chance.

A combination of reading this forum, studying a few books (on *both* sides of the debate) and talking to some friends who were versed in this subject slowly nudged me towards atheism. It was hard at first since I wanted to believe in God (and still do to some degree). If anything, my hardcore evangelical friends put the final nails in the coffin of my theism. When they discovered I was "slipping" they gave me all sorts of reading material and pamphlets. Each one was more ridiculous than the one before it. That my friends actually bought the horrible arguments presented in their material made me scared to be honest.

This forum has made me more tolerant in some ways and less tolerant in others. I am now more understanding of the fact that people use God/Jesus as their "spirituality trigger," and in that way, religion is a necessary and good thing. However, the truth claims of [insert religion/religious book] get no love from me anymore. I used to pretend they weren't that bad since my family and friends believe in them, but I can't keep that charade up any longer in good conscience.

[Lestat]

Do you believe that one species can evolve into a seperate and distinct species? Is this what you mean when you refer to macroevolution?

I agree that evolution does not refute the existence of God. But I can't for the life of me see how one could be dissuaded on evolution by looking further into. It just seems so obviously true to me. I wish I knew where we're seeing it differently. It just makes perfect sense.

[NotReady]

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Do you believe that one species can evolve into a seperate and distinct species? Is this what you mean when you refer to macroevolution?


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I'm skeptical that all life evolved from one single celled common ancestor. So that takes care of the knotty problem of defining species. That focuses on what I think is the real problem generally, transitional forms, and specifically, human ancestor transitional forms. Unfortunately, that raises another knotty problem, what is a transitional form? I have almost started a thread a few times on this issue but didn't really want to spend the time on it. People might think I was anti-evolution or something.

What would be even more fun is origin of life. It's almost a slam dunk.

[Lestat]

I can see where you would have issue with what "sparked" the life of the first cell. Or even, what caused that one cell to multiply or mutate. I'm curious about that myself. But after things got going, I think it's evident how evolution took over.

Of course, this is all too similar with the "first cause" argument of the universe itself. I can see having issue with that. And again, I myself would like to know what could've caused the first atom.

These are not just questions Christians have. The only difference is that I cannot allow myself to plug in a god (or any reason), that cannot be verified. I adopt an "I just don't know" attitude and hope these riddles are eventually solved.

[NotReady]

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The only difference is that I cannot allow myself to plug in a god (or any reason), that cannot be verified.


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But there are only two options.